Are there things that aren’t immoral but you still shouldn’t want to be the kind of person that does them?

Great Debates
1

I was reading a thread about whether in and of itself incest between consenting adults is bad which made me research the philosophical concept of supererogatory and subererogatory acts. We can all easily imagine things that aren’t harmful in the traditional sense but are still weird, deviant or something we apprehend you shouldn’t want to be the kind of person that does even if we can’t give a deeper explanation as to why it repulses us like something typically seen as wrong like murder, rape, theft etc.

With this in mind do you think there things that aren’t immoral but you still shouldn’t want to be the kind of person that does them even if you’re the only person affected?

2

I want to make sure I understand - you aren’t asking if there are things that aren’t immoral that I don’t want to do. You’re asking if there are things that I don’t believe are immoral but I still don’t want to be the sort of person who does those things. Like if I didn’t think there was anything morally wrong about having a non-exclusive relationship but didn’t want to be the sort of person who sees two people concurrently?

No - and in fact I think if I don’t want to be the sort of person who is seeing two people at the same time, I almost have to think it’s immoral in some sense. I mean, you wouldn’t say you don’t want to be the sort of person who walks around with their finger up their nose because we don’t think there’s a certain type of person who does that. But to say “the sort of person who” does a certain thing implies a judgment of some type.

3

Unless I misunderstand you, there are tonnes. I don’t want to be the kind of person who:

  • trips over all the time
  • alphabetises their spice rack
  • interrupts people
  • goes to parties every weekend
  • always has to have the last word
  • loses things (alas, I am this person)
    etc.

I was going to say ‘runs late’, but some people do think this is a moral failing.

4

Some people place great store in having what they call “high standards”. Which is to say they voluntarily refrain from many harmless things that others might readily do, while congratulating themselves for their better nature, breeding, personal sense of excellence, etc.

E.g.

Some people use paper napkins at home [shudder]. I would never do that. I have my standards and only linen napkins will do. Which I iron after laundering.

Napkins have no moral dimension. But the standard keeper has ascribed something good to linen and by extension linen-users versus something bad to paper and by extension paper-users. Keeping good posture, recycling your plastics, driving with economy in mind, and a thousand other things are self-imposed limits,

I’m not sure where any of this falls in the OP’s taxonomy.


I suppose a different but closely related question is “Do you do things you’d be ashamed of or embarrassed about if your mother or next door neighbor found out?” If the answer for you is “no”, that really says you’re allowing them (or is that “community standards”?) to set your behavioral limits. “Should” you let them do that to/for you? Hmmm.

Here’s another idea …

Moral/immoral is not a bright line distinction. There are things obviously well on the white or black side, but there is a lot of gray in the middle. How dark a shade of gray do you want to be? How close to the line do you want to skate?

Some folks live to drive right up to the line, almost taunting it. Others want to stay way far away from it, back turned and eyes scrunched closed.

I have a hard time deciding on a normative stance for all that amounts to “63% saturated gray is OK, but 64% is outré”

The OP talks about “shouldn’t”. That’s a normative word. And requires we pick an X% saturation of gray and stick with that X.

That seems to me an indefensible position.

5

Too many people think too many things are immoral.

How about acts that are common and everyday?

Like sharing your whole life on social media- every meal out, date nite, even sex life, how much you earn, etc.

Letting your kid live with his smart phone all day all nite.

6

I don’t think there’s anything immoral about cleaning sewers for a living. But I wouldn’t want to be the sort of person who does it.

7

The kind who believes in a sky fairy, and worse, proselytizes to everyone around him.

The kind who tries to take 13 items through the 10 item line.

8

Interesting question. My first thought was that going on a vacation where you never leave the resort or cruise ship isn’t immoral, but I don’t want to be the kind of person who does it…

… and then I thought, well, do I really believe someone else shouldn’t want to be the kind of person who does it? Isn’t that awfully judgy? …

… All right, I kinda do believe people-in-general shouldn’t want to be that kind of person. Still not immoral …

… OK, maybe I do believe, in my heart, that travel style has a moral dimension, and that my way is better. Hmm…

9

Taking all but one mini-meatball at the potluck.

Listen, there’s nothing wrong with finishing a dish. Take the last slice of pizza or chicken wing or whatever, the food is there to be eaten. But leaving a solitary mini meatball is the product of a sinister disposition and a personal attack on everybody else.

You know what? I’ve changed my mind, that behavior is actively immoral.

10

Shitting ones pants voluntarily fits the OP’s bill, methinks. Completely moral and harmless, yet…

11

It’s not immoral to be chronically late to everything, but I wouldn’t want to be that guy.

12

Spelling “night” by contemporary English orthographic conventions rather that to recall a sound that dropped out in the Middle Ages. Certainly not immoral, but I wouldn’t want to do it, because -gh- represents the standard. Or tradition. Or something.

(I suspect I like the -gh- for its synchronous surreality, and any pretense to morality or being “good” is a lie I tell myself.)

13

Look, this thread is about stuff that isn’t immoral not for actions which should net you decades of hard time.

14

Honestly, it would be helpful for the OP to define “immoral” for the purpose of the discussion, and whether he means “unethical” instead, or something else altogether.

We generally use immoral to mean harmful, either to others or to society. I’m not sure there’s an overlap between “immoral” as a given society would define it and “not harmful” as that same society would judge it.

15

In 1910 a newspaper asked around for responses to the question of “what is wrong with the world.” G.K. Chesterton replied:

“In one sense, and that the eternal sense, the thing is plain. The answer to the question, “What is Wrong?” is, or should be, “I am wrong.” Until a man can give that answer his idealism is only a hobby.”

ISTM that self-discipline is a measure of self-respect, and only someone with self-respect can offer genuine respect towards others. However, these disciplines need to be regularly evaluated. Am I just feeding my own ego, or actually contributing to the much-needed peaceful flow of things?

16

Owing money on credit cards is not immoral, in fact the banking system may depend on it, but I wouldn’t want to be the one to do it.

17

It’s a common misconception that legality equates to morality. However, the law often lags behind societal ethics, and as a result, certain acts that are morally questionable are legally protected.

For example, squatting (occupying property without the owner’s permission) can be legally defended under “adverse possession” laws in many jurisdictions. These laws allow individuals to claim ownership of a property after residing there for a certain period (provided specific conditions are met).

While such laws aim to resolve issues around abandoned properties, they can sometimes protect actions that many may view as unethical/immoral. It’s important to distinguish between what is legal and what is moral, as the two do not always align.

Personally, I would not engage in squatting, sue someone for injuries sustained while trespassing, or participate in other such “legal” activities.

18

Using the word “impactful”.

19

Here, let me actionalize that impactful statement of yours. :wink:

20

A lot of actions that “maximize utility value” are not illegal and perhaps not immoral but I’d still not want to be that kind.

Example: A boss who insists on paying only minimum wage despite his employees living in a very high-cost region, saying “The law is the law.”