Are these phrases considered racist? Is it in bad taste to use these terms in polite or casual conversation?
*Call a spade a spade
To be gipped (gypped?)
Harder than Chinese math*
I have heard or used all of these fairly recently, and was wondering if using them was offensive or a faux pas. Thanks for any insight. Also, if you can provide a cite for any of these, I’d appreciate it as a bonus.
I would never in a million years have thought “…spade a spade” could be considered racist. But googling it, it appears that the wholly innocent phrase has become somewhat associated with unpleasant racist slang. But not intractibaly so. Unless somebody objects to the use of the word spade in all situations, they should not claim this phrase to be racist.
‘Gypped’ - never heard it, but I suspect it’s an uunpleasant racist term (there’s a recent thread on Gypsies and travellers which demonstrates the tensions present, if you want to search for it)
The last one, I don’t have anything to comment, having never heard it and Google not helping.
I’ve wondered about the 1st. Never heard (nor do I understand) the last. I have heard that the second comes from to be “gypsied” and is therefore similar to being “jewed down” so yes, I would think it is in bad taste.
The term “gypped” is a racial slur, being derived from prejudice against Gypsies. I don’t think the “spade” remark was ever racist until the PC experts decided it just must be. I’ve never heard the phrase about Chinese math. Doesn’t sound particularly racist to me, but I’m sure someone (not of Chinese heritage) will be offended.
I guess “gypped” would be more of an ethnic slur, rather than racist. Sorry.
“harder than chinese math” probably refers to using an abacus.
Absolutely not. This is actually a mis-translation of a common ancient greek expression. It has nothing whatsover to do with race. If you want the details, try a search. It’s been discussed several times. In fact, I think there was a thread on it a week or two ago.
Well, “culturalist,” anyway. I believe it makes reference to Rypsies, or Roma as they are politely referred to. N.B. There is no racist connotation in “Roma tomatoes.”
Probably. It doesn’t seem to be a very common expression however, so you’re likely to get mostly puzzled looks. I, for one, hadn’t heard it. Doing Roman math is quite difficult enough, anyway.
I’ve only heared of Gipped, and now that you mention it, because i haven’t thought about it before, well yes i think it would be considered a rude comment, though once again, i didn’t think about the actual meaning Good Question!!
As to the call a spade a spade, you could avoid sounding like a racist if you used the British phrasing- call a spade a bloody shovel. My friend’s dad was from England and he was quite fond of that phrase.
i always thought the spade phrase had to do with correct terms for gardening implements. but previous post is absolutely right:
http://alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxtocall.html
but after citing the origins of the phrase in 423 BC, the writer still thinks it should be avoided because of the possibility of contemporary misunderstanding.
The only time I’ve ever heard something like the third one was in a Tom Waits song “Pasties and a G-string”.
I would rank them as:
Not -ist,
-ist,
Not -ist, but likely ignorant, it has a tone of “nyuck nuck” over it.
Probably opening a can of worms here, but anyone heard the phrase: [as chaotic as a] Chinese fire drill?
I did believe it’s racist, but then I went to China, and I believe now it is merely culturist.
Many simple activities (such as lining up for a bus; getting off a plane; etc.) in China - cities especially - descend into total chaos and anarchy; I have never been unfortunate enough to have been in a fire drill in China, but I don’t doubt that it would be amongst the most chaotic human situations on earth.
The third one doesn’t even sound culturist to me (unlike, for example, the ‘chinese fire drill’ or ‘chinese chicken farm’ lines). It just sounds really difficult: the hardest langauge to speak combined with everyone’s least favorite subject from high school.
I enjoy spending a lot of time watching muscle cars and imports, and have really felt disturbed with the use of the phrase “rice burners” when referring to import cars. I know that a lot of oriental people would be highly offended by that so I really try my best to refrain from using it.
I really think that’s oversensitivity - and certainly it’s not a view shared by mainstream and PC-aware media:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/northern_ireland/profiles/321205.stm
Kindly manner concealed callous killer | UK news | The Guardian (tenth paragraph)
The version I’ve usually heard is “tougher than Chinese algebra,” not “math.” I think the point there is trying to do algebra with an alphabet that has several thousand letters, most of which the average American can’t recognize. That would certainly drive me crazy.
I’ll admit, my sister and I grew up using the term “gypped”, but knowing it was sort of naughty. That is why we used it, because Mom told us not to. Once I got a bit older and better understood why it wasn’t nice, I certainly stopped. Which is why I was horrified to hear the term used in Disney’s remake of The Parent Trap.
And most Asians would be offended by your use of the word “oriental”.
“Calling a spade a spade” is not a racist phrase. GorillaMan and Chefguy hit the nail on the head. The PC Nazis get all worked up over anything that sounds remotely racist. Ironically this is the same lack of understanding (OK, ignorance) that causes racism in the first place.
It’s similar to the word “Niggard” which means stingy. The word has no association with anything of african decent and come to us from Scandinavia. Despite this, people are up in arms over it. They get all hysterical and try to ban books. (I think the book in question is “The Great Gatsby”, but I’m not sure.)
I think we need to “nip” this kind of ignorance in the bud. (no offense to the Japanese) It is our duty, as those in the know, to educate our fellow “man”. (no offense to women) If we don’t we’ll lose Doo-WOP music!
Gyp probably does come from gypsies. I’ve always used this word and never made the connection before. (There’s some of that ignorance again.) So should I stop? The word is common english and I don’t think anyone is complaining about it. I hear about “indian giver” and “that’s mighty white of you”, but I don’t hear much on gyp.
I, too, have heard the phrase as “Chinese Algebra”. I always thought it meant that something is very hard. Asians are often sterotyped as being better at math than non-asians. So it makes sense that the algebra taught and used in China would be more difficult to understand than the algebra we learn in the west. (not my idea, just an interpretation of the phrase)
But is claiming a culture is better than others racist (culturist)?
Yes, it has to be.