Okay, now my rant:
What the hell is wrong with being PC? Why is everyone throwing it out at people insultingly? Sorry if I think it’s a good thing not to refer to people derogatorily, or to insult them on the basis of their views or whatever.
I thought we were making social progress here in being PC, but everyone seems to want to reject it.
The concept of political correctness to prevent offending people may have started out with good intentions, but we all know about the road to hell, hm?
We now have terms for everything to keep from offending anyone- Is it really possible to keep from offending everyone? We can’t be all things to all people.
Does being called “bald” hurt any less than “follically challenged”? Does it make you any less bald?
Disabled was the new term for handicapped, but now we have specially abled. What? What new abilities does this person have? I think we are creating euphemisms to try to make these people feel better about themselves (or to make the people talking about them feel more sensitive). What we should be doing is trying to prevent the stigma in the first place.
Dismissing a view because it is “politically correct” is a cheap and false argument and is used by people who have no other defense for their own beliefs than to belittle the views of others. It is a political buzzword that masks as intelligent rhetoric.
The saddest part is that those things that are denigrated as PC are, generally, considered correct by thoughtful people. One can sneeringly write off support for women’s rights as PC, or those who work for the environment as PC thugs, but that neither reduces the correctness of what the others are doing nor does it build one’s own case. It is simply a cheap shot meant to reduce the others’ esteem in the eyes of superficial louts.
Political Correctness is all about people doing what they think they is right instead of what really is right, and it is making up new words in the hopes that the thoughts behind the words would change, but the thoughts behind the words and the attitudes within never do.
It’s a facade that only offers a “feel good” sensitivity to the most shallow of the bleeding heart liberals; at best, a nice idea that goes contrary to human nature, at worst, a way of sweeping dirt under a rug because actually cleaning up the mess would be far too much trouble and effort.
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Sapphire – you said it, while I was trying to think.
How we talk isn’t nearly as important as how we act. (Duh.)
I don’t correct my mom when she says “gypped”. She has no clue that Romany people would be offended, and she means no offense.
See how bad it is, this PC crap? I said “Romany” instead of Gypsy, because I’m afraid that somebody’s gonna think badly of me because I don’t know or use the correct term.
Actually, I don’t know if Romany is PC or not, and I don’t really care.
If I discriminate against Gypsies, then I deserve your wrath, but if someone wants to light into me for not researching the PC terminology before posting, then being PC has gone too far.
Also true, but these are not necessarily “PC” in the pure sense of the term. But in the same vein, spelling women as “womyn” (to prevent the use of the word “men”) by the feminists is an example of PC - which I think is silly. It doesn’t seem to serve the cause any further- it just makes them look extreme, which decreases their mainstream credibility.
The new vocabulary of political correctness seems unnecessary to me. I am all for using non-derogatory terms, but those have already been integrated into our language.
Sorry if I’m overreacting, but FUCK YOU (yes, I am overreacting but I’m in a bad mood tonight). I’d be pissed off is someone called me a kike but was still nice to me. Changing terminology in the hope that stuff will change is GOOD. It’s PROGRESS, or at least an attempt at.
So what you’re saying is that if I DO use politically correct terms it’s cause I don’t believe in them? You might get away with being unPC with some people and groups without offending them, but not me.
And I do agree that it has gone too far in some respects. eg, “folically challenged”. But that’s not what I’m talking about, really. That we can write off as jokes. There are more serious examples I can think of.
I don’t think changing from “kike” to person of Jewish descent was part of the PC movement. I think the progress from derogatory names for ethnic groups had been made prior to the PC movement.
I know that the “follically challenged” thing is the humorous side, but there are truths to it. What do you think of the “womyn” example? Does this somehow prevent offense to women? What about the “specially abled”? This euphemism suggests that the loss of an ability confers upon you a new and special ability others don’t have. What, pray tell, might that be?
But not change simply for the sake of change. Changing the terms will not change people’s minds. The person who uses the PC terms feels the same way about you, whether they say kike or person of Jewish descent.
No, but maybe it’s because it is easier to use them than to actually get to the meat of the problem. (Not you personally, but the surge of support this campaign got shows people want the easy way out.)
What can I say? grins I’m extremely polite, usually. I actually think that’s th first time I’ve ever said “fuck you” to someone not jokingly.
I agree with you, but my point is that in a lot of ways, being PC is about not offending people, moving towards acceptance or at least tolerance etc. I was using a radical example, but I think my point still holds.
I’m a very adamant feminist, and while I object to many things in our society, spelling women with men in it is not one of them. When you think about it, we ARE the same species, you know… there’s got to be a common denominator somewhere.
What I think is that some stuff has gotten embedded in the language so much that it no longer offends, such as the “gypped” example. (Then again, I don’t know any Romany, so I can’t say for sure) Some stuff is still offensive, though, and writing it off as “PC” so it can be ignored is NOT a solution!
The “shit pulled by PC thugs” has been vastly overblown.
Follically challenged is a term YOU invented. I have never seen someone bald ask to be called that. Most of the bitching about being PC turns into some hideous monster of offense and a minefield of small gestures out of what is really just an attempt to reduce the use of offensive terms.
Most people will be understanding if you don’t use the most up to date “PC” term. It is not like you have to have a dictionary on hand to avoid using offensize language unless you just happen to be slow to pick up on things like not annoying people by being patronizing.
Political Correctness started out as a nice thing, I think. Just trying to be polite. And I think in some cases it still is used for good. But it gets a derogatory reaction nowadays because it has been so overused.
My gut reaction to some more “extreme” PC concepts is that a bunch of earnest PC people sit around, thinking up the “correct” word for just about everything. And if, God Forbid, you weren’t informed of the new “correct” term, they glare at you. Or if, GOD FORBID, you don’t think their more “correct” term is something worth remembering or using, then you are an evil asshole who is obviously out to oppress everyone. This is my gut reaction, I’m not saying it’s fair, or accurate. But you know? Obviously I got this feeling from somewhere. Because I think there are some people who actually DO this. At least some of the time.
And I actually do use a lot of “PC” terms. I think they have a use. But I think there is a limit. And I think some people focus on the words someone uses, instead of their behavior, or attitude.
Political Correctness isn’t anything bad in and of itself. But I would imagine that Political Correctness for the sake of Political Correctness and for no other reason would be a very shallow and empty gesture, and would only result in insulting and hindering rather than helping.
Think of it this way… Eating is good (it’s necessary to survive), but if you simply eat for the sole purpose of eating (that is, you eat even if you don’t need to, and have no controls on what you do eat), this can lead to a bad diet.
Much the same with PC attitudes. One can yell and scream about the horrors of people using the term “crippled”, but what if Mr. Joe War-Wound in his wheelchair really doesn’t mind? What if he takes offense that people believe him to be so emotionally fragile that he’d be hurt to be described as “crippled”?
I can tell you right now I despise the term “big-boned”. I’m not “big-boned”. I’m “fat”. “Chubby” on a good day. If someone brings up “oh, some people just have different genetics” or some such to try to soften the blow, I’d explode on them. The pure and simple fact is I don’t take care of myself. Now, that’s not to say that there AREN’T examples of people who could not control their weight even if they ate perfectly and excercised, but I am not one of them, and I have absolutely no need for others to try to “protect” me.
So, in short, Political Correctness = Okay. Excessive, Thoughtless, Fanatical Political Correctness = Bad.
Please bear in mind that a lot of the more extreme PC language has been developed for official use. One trouble with everyday, common words is that they are not necessarily that precise. Ambiguity is bad if it can later be challenged in a court. Furthermore, it’s no bad thing for official forms to seek to cause the absolute minimum offence. If they err on the side of caution, then so be it.
Everyday PC is just a matter of recognising that certain words are loaded and can be considered hurtful. I choose my language with care because I don’t want to hurt people. And as has already been said, most of these ‘folically challenged’ examples are made up by those who are so set in their own little prejudices that they can’t imagine how using loaded words or associating nasty things with ethnic groups is hurtful. So they take a cheap shot.
Words DO have power. Words shape ideas. Ideas shape actions. Show a little respect and the world just might turn out to be a better place.
I’m caffeine challenged at the moment, but I’ll try…
One thing I hate about “PC” is that the terms are still labels. “A rose by any other name”, if you will. By using PC terms, we are noticing that someone is from a different race, religion, size, ability, etc.
Here’s a little story. You’ll probably think it’s bullshit, but it’s true. I had been working with a woman for a couple of years. One day she mentioned that she “didn’t have all of the opportunities” some people have because she’s “not white.” This confused me. I had never noticed that she’s Asian. I worked with her for two years and never thought of her as being anything other than just another person. Before that (I was 24), I just saw people as people. After that, I noticed race.
By attaching PC labels to people, we are noticing that they are them. I think it’s better if we are all (fat, black, white, blind, whatever) us. IMO, PC labels detract from the fact that we are all humans. If you talk about a friend do you say, “I have this African-American friend…”? Wouldn’t it be better say, “I have this friend…”? Do you say, “I saw a fat man almost get hit by a bus”? Or do you say, “I saw a man almost get hit by a bus”? Sometimes it’s useful to attach descriptions, but it seems to me that using them all the time, PC or not, only serves to point out the differences instead of the humanity.
But to Johnny L.A.: I was trying to describe a friend of mine to an aquaintance. Said friend was black. Another friend of mine (who’s also black) was in the room. Thinking the way you did, I said: “Umm… he’s tall… and uh…” My friend jumped in and said “He’s black.” I have him a quizzical look, to which he replied: “It’s true, he IS black. And it’s not a bad thing!” Or something to that effect.
Sorry if this is incoherent as it is 9 in the morning =P
You’re a feminist? Do you get “offended” when someone uses the word “chick?” How about if I were to make a joke about how the best woman’s movement is when she’s on top of my cock and shifting around real nice, huh?
Okay, not my funniest joke, but the fact is that we SHOULD be able to joke things. We SHOULD be able to laugh at our differences. The PC movement says, no. This is bad.
Fuck that noise.
What is so PC about Chris Rock making jokes about “niggers?” Nothing. But it’s fucking funny.
Watch the highly underrated PCU for edification on how fucking silly PC-think is.
The totally retarded… Uh, sorry, I mean mentally handicappped… Oh wait, I mean mentally challenged… thing about this is that very often, my own views ARE politically correct, as a matter of fact. I am all for equality of all the races, genders and among people of sexual orientation, for example.
However, I am against (for example) anti-Hate Crime legislation for several resasons. Now, a person who kowtows to the PC ideals would suspend their own critical thinking and just say, “Oh yes! Those laws are goods!”
However, since I actually DO keep on thinking, I come to the conclusion that this legislation is a bad idea.
Too many fuckers use PC as an excuse to not think for themselves. Don’t we have enough fucking sheep as it is?
You wanna label yourself as “PC,” fine. I’d prefer to come to my own conclusions about what is “correct,” politically or otherwise.
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And to some, it’s genuinely a way of forcing people to speak a certain way to satisfy an agenda. Spend a year on a university campus and you’ll see that, too.
This is, at its heart, a semantic argument. If you define “Political correctness” as making a sincere effort not to hurt people, it’s hard to see anything wrong with it. Calling someone a “faggot” is done with the intent to cause harm, which is morally wrong no matter where you sit. But if you define it as being this:
it’s beyond common courtesy.
Without defining what you mean by “politcally correct,” who knows?
Give it up, Esprix. Satan has demonstrated again that he’s incapable of rethinking an issue and will defend his position to the end, no matter how stupid or ill-gotten, because to do so would be “hypocritical.” Ignore him.
