"PC Bullshit"

[Esprix]

RickJay, I’m not saying there aren’t PC Police out there who have taken an issue of sensitivity and gone overboard, but the simple fact is that if someone tells me “plthragggg” offends them, despite the fact that I did not intend it to offend them, I’m going to go out of my way not to use it. Similarly, if I use it by accident, without knowing the word offends, I do hope someone will tell me in a non-confrontational way that I am somewhat ignorant on the word’s usage. I may think it rather silly (after all, what does “plthragggg” mean, anyway?), but that doesn’t give me carte blanche to use it just because I happen to think the person being insulted is being ridiculous. The level of insult is determined by the person being insulted, is it not? Equally, if somebody calls me a plthragggg, why, I could just choose not to let it bother me, n’est-ce pas? The power is ultimately in the offended’s hand.

I’m not saying this is the way it always goes, but it’s the way I try to be, and to see things. YMMV, as always.

Esprix

[dropzone]

Oh, did I forget my “winkie?”

There it is.

[Mojo]

I’m not saying there aren’t PC Police out there who have taken an issue of sensitivity and gone overboard

The DC gov’t “niggardly” flap, anyone? This, IMHO, was a worst-case scenario for going overboard with the PCism. Compare it to what James Watt said a dozen or so years earlier about his staff (or Earl Butzes comments in '76) and you can see the difference in attitudes now and then.

[Helen_s_Eidolon]

You’re a feminist? Do you get “offended” when someone uses the word “chick?” How about if I were to make a joke about how the best woman’s movement is when she’s on top of my cock and shifting around real nice, huh?

I don’t especially LIKE it when people call me a “chick”, but I deal. And yeah, I would find that joke kind of offensive. My view is that as long as we let little things like jokes and common habits continue, we’re letting the view stay in our society. Not the BIGGEST issue, according to me, but still an issue.

Oh, and there’s very little Esprix and dropzone have said that I don’t agree with.

[Johnny_L.A]

after all, what does “plthragggg” mean, anyway?

It’s sexual in nature, and very very disturbing. Think “goat-felching squared”. More than that, I will not say.

[Crunchy_Frog]

Esprix and LaurAnge - using examples of derogatory words is not what the argument of PC is about. It’s as wrong to say ‘kike’ ‘faggot’ as it is to say ‘nigger’ to most people, and only the bigots use those terms, and will continue to use them.

The argument I think is about being overly PC, which I agree has happened to an extent. I mean really, what was so wrong with saying a person is black instead of African-American? In this case, does it not divide us further? This man isn’t one of us regular Americans, he’s African-American. He’s different. What happened to American citizens just being Americans?

Now we have Asian-Americans (for some reason not explained to me Oriental is not PC), African-Americans, European-Americans, Latin-Americans . . . you see what I mean? We are divided ourselves into groups instead of being the melting pot we are supposed to be in this country. Giving ourselves different names plants the idea that we are different nationalities, and not to be unified under the title of being an American.

And I had to spend months in a wheelchair while recovering form a car wreck about 4 years ago. I’ll tell you one damn thing - I sure as hell didn’t feel ‘specially abled’ I couldn’t even bathe myself I was so badly banged-up. That’s a handicap, my friend, not any ‘special ability’

True story - I was with a friend at work who stutters (I’m sorry, is stuttering PC? I mean he has a speech impediment, or is that not PC either?) A manager walked past as I asked him what his handicap was. She stopped to chew me out for being insensitive towards somebody with a stutter, and how could I be so rude? I couldn’t get a word in edge-wise, and between Marcus’s laughing and stuttering (there I go again!) it took him awhile to regain his composure enough to explain that we were discussing golf.

Not all PC terms are bad, but IMO, yes, we are taking this PC crap too far.

[Ogre]

It seems to me that the advent of Political Correctness as policy is very much a slippery slope. Where does the suppression of speech and ideas stop? Does it stop when we have a flat, featureless, uniform landscape of ideas and speech? I’m not one to let anyone tell me how to think or speak. Therefore, I can not then tell anyone else how to think or speak.

Personally, I rely on my common sense and common courtesy to tell me what is appropriate or inappropriate to say. And no, my speech does not change according to the company in which I find myself.

The core of my argument is that I take serious umbrage if someone is arrogant and superior enough to try to tell me how I must think. I’m no sheep. Thank you, I’ll speak the way I damned well like. Because I will reject any form of speech control, I can’t decide what’s right for someone else to think. I don’t believe that anyone is qualified to make this decision for someone else.

[Ogre]

Now we have Asian-Americans (for some reason not explained to me Oriental is not PC), African-Americans, European-Americans, Latin-Americans . . . you see what I mean? We are divided ourselves into groups instead of being the melting pot we are supposed to be in this country. Giving ourselves different names plants the idea that we are different nationalities, and not to be unified under the title of being an American.

In addition to the point Crunchy Frog made in this post, this sort of thing is just outright, wrong-headed, goddamned inaccurate. They are no more African-American than I am European-American. They were not (in most cases…don’t get huffy, nitpickers) born in Africa. I was not born in Europe. I am American. They are American. All this racial PC classification actually has more of a segregating effect than anything else.

[Satan]

*Originally posted by Esprix *

So, Satan, if I ask you not to call me a faggot, would you?

Well, you seemed to be on my side about the whole uproar over the word “fundie” and how it was used by myself and others (like Y)OU, for example).

How is this any different?

dropzone: I am quite capable of changing my views. I made my fucking points. You disagree? Fine! I never said you had to agree with me. But I consider political correctness to be a waste of time. I am me. I refuse to slap a label on me because it makes people feel better. I’d rather allow my actions and thoughts control me, not the words I choose to use.

And Esprix, one of the funnies moments I had on this board (as told to me by others) was when SqrlCub started a thread about how he wasn’t feeling too loved and wanted people to say they liked him. I responded:

You’re all right… For a FAG!

I didn’t even want to put the smilie in there, but I did because I KNEW that some asshole who was so fucking PC would get all offended.

I believe SqrlCub and you know how I feel about gay people. He responded in kind - something about me being okay for a breeder.

I like SqrlCub. I like you, though you do sometimes get prone to hysterics. I like to think I can mess with you. How different is this from when Alphagene (and others here) made fun of my long hair?

So, yeah, Esprix, I’ll call you a faggot. Or I won’t. But you should judge the context and the thoughts behind it, not the word itself. And that is exactly my beef with PC-thought.

---

Yer pal,
Satan

*I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR:
Six months, four weeks, one day, 16 hours, 42 minutes and 58 seconds.
8507 cigarettes not smoked, saving $1,063.48.
Extra life with Drain Bead: 4 weeks, 1 day, 12 hours, 55 minutes.

David B used me as a cite!*

[klepto]

Being PC is not what pisses me off. What pisses me off (one of many things!) is those hyper-PC people who feel they must inflict their beliefs on me. If I wanna say someone is a chick, I have that right. I am not “selling out my own sex”, as someone once accused me of doing. In my book, if someone has a vagina, she is a chick. Big fucking deal. I will not let someone regulate how I define myself. I’m not a pigment-challenged, menstrually influenced womyn. I’m a pale bitch, thank you. I’m not living an alternative lifestyle. I’m a dyke. I have the right to define myself, and no amount of PC thugging will change that for me. —klepto

[RickJay]

*Originally posted by Esprix *
**RickJay, I’m not saying there aren’t PC Police out there who have taken an issue of sensitivity and gone overboard, but the simple fact is that if someone tells me “plthragggg” offends them, despite the fact that I did not intend it to offend them, I’m going to go out of my way not to use it. **

Naturally, and anyone who thinks that’s anything other than common courtesy is an ass.

This is a tempest in a teapot for the most part, since the really fascist-leaning PC police mostly inhabit universities and do little harm to the real world.

[Cantrip]

*Originally posted by Esprix *
The level of insult is determined by the person being insulted, is it not?

And that’s just the problem. For the vast majority of people, common sense rules. LaurAnge deals when people call her a “chick”. Most people deal, and walk the line between not wanting to appear overly sensitive and yet not wanting to encourage ignorant bigotry (ignorant in the sense of informationally challenged, that is ;)). So if someone calls me a Jew, I’ll deal; if someone calls me a kike, I’ll tell them that’s an offensive word and please don’t say it again. Will their opinion change? No. That’s what Satan was getting at.

The problem comes when we let the most easily insulted, those who don’t care about appearing overly sensitive, define the level of discourse. For example, the water buffalo incident at Penn comes to mind. Or the firing of a DC official for using the word “niggardly”. Some ignorant person mistook this word for an insult. Should that schmuck be the person to define what I can and cannot say? I don’t think so.

[pldennison]

*Originally posted by Crunchy Frog *
[BNow we have Asian-Americans (for some reason not explained to me Oriental is not PC), African-Americans, European-Americans, Latin-Americans . . . you see what I mean? We are divided ourselves into groups instead of being the melting pot we are supposed to be in this country. Giving ourselves different names plants the idea that we are different nationalities, and not to be unified under the title of being an American.
**

I have bad news for you, Crunchy–this isn’t “now” that this has happened. White European immigrants invented this, and did it in the early part of the century, before “PC” was even a concept in anybody’s head. Drive through the near east side of Cleveland, and take a look at the Slovenian-American this, and Slovak-American that, and Czech-American these. Take a look at the phone book in any sizeable city and you’ll find Italian-American and Irish-American fraternal organizations and meeting halls.

Let’s not all pretend that “wrong-thinking liberals” or the “PC language police” (or whatever boogeyman people are blaming for their newfound inability to be rude in polite society) are to blame for the “hyphenated American” phenomenon.

[Crunchy_Frog]

*Originally posted by pldennison *
**I have bad news for you, Crunchy–this isn’t “now” that this has happened. White European immigrants invented this, and did it in the early part of the century, before “PC” was even a concept in anybody’s head. Drive through the near east side of Cleveland, and take a look at the Slovenian-American this, and Slovak-American that, and Czech-American these. Take a look at the phone book in any sizeable city and you’ll find Italian-American and Irish-American fraternal organizations and meeting halls. **

I did not know this. I was always under the impression these were newer terms designed not to offend.

Does the story about getting yelled at while talking to my stuttering co-worker still hold up though? It’s still a private joke between Marcus and myself. “So what’s you golf impediment?”

[Ogre]

pldennison,

If they were immigrants, then they could be accurately called “_______-Americans.” Someone born and raised down the street from me can not.

[pldennison]

*Originally posted by Ogre *
**pldennison,

If they were immigrants, then they could be accurately called “_______-Americans.” Someone born and raised down the street from me can not. **

Uh, you totally missed the point. See, those organizations are still active. The founders’ children, and grandchildren, and in some cases great-grandchildren keep them going. Why? Because they are proud of their ethnic heritage. Despite the fact that they are third or fourth generation natives, they continue to belong to these organizations.

Apparently, such a thing is peachy keen if white people do it. You never hear anybody bitch about Irish-American scholarships, for example (and yes, they do exist). But if nonwhites do it, it’s “PC bullshit.” What does that tell you?

[Show_Biz]

Academia has deplored PC because it is simply a way to keep students from thinking for themselves.

Once someone says “Indians prefer to be know as Pre-Columbian Americans”, it is too quickly accepted without ever checking with the Indians, who are still reeling from Amerind, People of Color, and Indigenous Americans.

PC, in other words, is learning by rote instead of learning by thoughtful inspection of issues.

[techchick68]

I have started to reply to this thread many times. I will make this quick and short:

Now we have Asian-Americans (for some reason not explained to me Oriental is not PC), African-Americans, European-Americans, Latin-Americans . . . you see what I mean? We are divided ourselves into groups instead of being the melting pot we are supposed to be in this country. Giving ourselves different names plants the idea that we are different nationalities, and not to be unified under the title of being an American.

I am adopted and don’t know my blood lines guess that makes me a:

Bastard-American

WRONG, I am an American first and foremost regardless if I know my family heritage.

Oh excuse me, using bastard because I was an illigit child MUST be politically incorrect. I am sure someone on this board is offended by that, well I don’t really care. I am a bastard child.

OY, PC has just gone too far, time to focus our energies in teaching rather than dictating what words are “okay” to use.

Oh and Satan, I did find that joke funny. It’s not about the joke it’s the intention with which the person on the receiving end takes it, I personally found it funny. If we can’t laugh at ourselves who the hell can we laugh at?

[Ogre]

Because they are proud of their ethnic heritage.

Wonderful. I’m all for it. Pride does not equal accuracy, however. Just because I join the Fraternal Order of Scottish-Americans doesn’t mean I’m Scottish-American, even if I have Scottish ancestry. I’m American.

You never hear anybody bitch about Irish-American scholarships.

Unless I’m mistaken, most of these type scholarships are privately funded. Under these circumstances, I have absolutely no problem with it. You can do anything you like with your money. If, however, any (including Irish-American) are publicly funded, I will bitch. Loudly.

[pldennison]

*Originally posted by Ogre *
**

Because they are proud of their ethnic heritage.

Wonderful. I’m all for it. Pride does not equal accuracy, however. Just because I join the Fraternal Order of Scottish-Americans doesn’t mean I’m Scottish-American, even if I have Scottish ancestry. I’m American.
**

Well, I still think you’re missing the larger point. Crunchy Frog’s (and others’) implication was that “_______ - American” was something invented by nonwhites in the late 20th century to piss off white people and make them feel stupid. It wasn’t. It was invented by white immigrants and their children in the early part of the century to remain in touch with their ethnic history.

**

You never hear anybody bitch about Irish-American scholarships.

Unless I’m mistaken, most of these type scholarships are privately funded. Under these circumstances, I have absolutely no problem with it. You can do anything you like with your money. If, however, any (including Irish-American) are publicly funded, I will bitch. Loudly.

**

At least that distinguishes you from most people in these discussions, who will stupidly ask, “Why is there an NAACP scholarship, but not an NAAWP scholarship?” Or, “Why is there a Miss Black America, but not a Miss White America?”

techchick: The only reason I don’t like when other people call little children “bastards” is because it puts a cultural onus on a child for something that isn’t their fault. Anybody who refers to one of my nephews as “bastards” better have a good explanation, or they will be receiving my size 9 in their ass.