Are these the real Ten Commandments?

The next verses refer to these as the Ten Commandments:

This is the first time that anything is referred to as the Ten Commandment. The commonly believed Ten Commandments in Exodu 20 are never referred to as the Ten Commandments:

So where am I going wrong here? Why is what is listed in Exodus 20 the Ten Commandments when they are never referred to as the Ten Commands? Why is what is listed in Exodus 34 not the Ten Commnadment since they are referred as the Ten Commandments?

In Rabbinic Literature (Midrash, Talmud, etc.), the most common term is not “10 Commandments” “Aseret Ha-Mitzvot” in Hebrew, but rather “Aseret Ha-Dibrot” “the 10 Revelatory Speech Statements” (“dibrot” is rather hard to translate).

The so-called 10 Commandments at Mt. Sinai in Ex 20 are preferred, because this is portrayed as God’s first speaking to the entire people of Israel, effectively sealing God’s covenant with them. In addition, in the book of Deuteronony, when Moses reviews what happened at Sinai, it is the Ex. 20 version that is referred to (cited with some modifications, however).

Hebrew speakers generally do not say “Aseret Ha-Mitzvot” but rather “Aseret ha-Dibrot” and always mean Ex 20, or the slightly different second rendition in Deut 5.

It’s notable that Judiasm, Catholicism, and Protestantism all divide the TC up in different ways.

Yes, but Pres. Bush prefers “the standard version”.

Judaism & Protestantism agree on this ordering (1- No Other Gods, 2- No Graven Images, 3- Don’t Misuse the Name, … 9- No False Witness, 10- No Coveting of Neighbor’s Wife or Goods) so it’s only Catholicism that has this ordering (1- No Other Gods or Graven Images, 3- Don’t Misuse the Name… 9- No Coveting of N’s Wife, 10- No Coveting of Neighbor’s Goods). I don’t know how Orthodox C’tianity orders them. Since the big Ten came from the Jews, I say they know best on this. :slight_smile:

The term “Ten Commandments” (actually, “ten statements”, as Lynwood mentions) also appears in Deut 4:13 and 10:4. The reference is always to the commandments carved on the stone tablets, rather than other commandments which were not so carved.

I don’t think your seeming contradiction is as awkward as you might think.

If you accept the Documentary (multiple-author) theory, then the first set of Ten Commandments, from Ex 20) are from the priestly author “P”, while the set of Ten Commandments you’ve cited from Ex 34 are from the author “J.” The multiple-author theory is, of course, ultimately unsatisfactory as an explanation, because the Redactor certainly edited the material together, so we really do have one “author” or editor, regardless of source material. We are therefore justified in viewing the entire Pentateuch text as a whole work, whether by one Author or by one Editor being irrelevant for analysis.

Remember the overview of the story: the people arrive at the mountain, assemble and prepare themselves, and God’s voice speaks to the entire people (Ex 20), what we call “The Ten Commandments.” The people are fearful and can’t bear the direct contact, and so Moses is delegated to speak to God for all the rest of the commandments, the whole next bunch of chapters to Ex 32. Note Ex 31:18 – after God speaks alone to Moses, He carves two tablets with the Pact. “The Pact” is assumed to mean the words spoken to the whole people.

In the Book of Deuteronomy, Moses is speaking his farewell address to the people, and he reminds them, in Deut 10:4, about “…the Ten Commandments that He addressed to you on the mountain out of the fire on the day of the Assembly.” Similarly, the usage in Deut 4:12 -13 refers to “The Lord spoke to you out of the fire… He declared to you the covenant that He commanded you to observe, the Ten Commandments.” It’s fairly clear that the term “Ten Commandments” refers to the spoken words from Ex 20.

In Chapter 32, Moses comes down, finds the people worshipping the golden calf, smashes the tablets in anger, and must go back up the mountain to try to appease God’s wrath. God gives Moses yet more commandments, including those you cite from Chapter 34. Note that Chapter 34 begins, “Carve two tablets of stone like the first, and I will inscribe upon the tablets the words that were on the first tablets which you shattered.”

Hence, the assumption is that the “extra” ten commandments in Chapter 34 are just another set of ten, they’re not “The” ten commandments. Does that explain it?

I will not attempt to speak for all Jewish traditions, but I have seen two sources that assign a different order to modern Jewish thought, as well. The numbering provided in Alexander McKenzie’s Dictionary of the Bible (with early supporters for each version) is as follows. In addition, the on-line Jewish Encyclopedia from the early 20th century provides a similar Jewish numbering system in its article on the Decalogue. This numbering is certainly consistent with the concept of the “Ten Words” although it makes less sense if one uses the term “Ten Commandments.” Given that even the borrowed word decalogue means “ten words,” it is clear that that interpretation cannot be dismissed. (I do find it interesting that Philo and Josephus did not use that numbering and I do not know when the shift occurred.)


**Reformed Protestant Churches**
**Modern Orthodox Churches**
01. Prohibit false gods				
02. Prohibit images			 		
03. Prohibit vain use of Divine name	Philo of Alexandria, Jewish 	
04. Honor Sabbath				philosopher (10 BCE - 50 CE)
05. Honor parents			(Flavius) Josephus, Jewish	
06. Prohibit murder				historian (fl. 1st Century CE)
07. Prohibit adultery			Greek Fathers of the Christian Church			
08. Prohibit theft				
09. Prohibit bearing false witness		
10. Prohibit covetousness			

**Modern Catholic Church**
**Evangelical/Lutheran Protestant Churches**
01. Prohibit false gods and images
02. Prohibit vain use of Divine name	 
03. Honor Sabbath			Clement of Alexandria, Christian 
03. Honor Sabbath			 	theologian (ca 150 – 215?)
04. Honor parents			Origen, Christian theologian
05. Prohibit murder				(ca. 185 - 254)
06. Prohibit adultery			Augustine of Hippo, Christian 
07. Prohibit theft				theologian (354 - 430)
08. Prohibit bearing false witness
09. Prohibit coveting neighbor's wife
10. Prohibit coveting neighbor's goods

**Modern Judaism**
01. "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, 
       out of the house of bondage."
02. Prohibit false or foreign gods and images
03. Prohibit vain use of Divine name
04. Honor Sabbath
05. Honor parents
06. Prohibit murder			
07. Prohibit adultery
08. Prohibit theft
09. Prohibit bearing false witness
10. Prohibit covetousness 

I stand corrected! Thanks!

It actually sounds like the new tablets should have the same stuff as the old one. But they don’t. Which is a little confusing. While slaughtering a calf and cooking it in its mother’s milk does seem a little sadistic, it does seem a little bizarre as a law. However: “All the firstborn are mine!” is like, the kickassiest commandment ever. That one goes right to the top of the top ten commandment countdown.

So, I am, like, totally confused. What should Judge Moore have on his monument -Exodus 20 stuff or Exodus 34 stuff? Should we really be calling them the Ten Statements because the Ten Commandments are in Exodus 34?

25 "Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast, and do not let any of the sacrifice from the Passover Feast remain until morning.

I should really stop mixing my blood sacrifices with beer. No wonder God hates me.

Actually I really like these alternate testaments much better. Seeing that I don’t own livestock, worship idols, or ever do anything besides sleep and eat on the weekend, I’m really set. I like how celebrating New Years is a commandment. I can totally do that. These are ten rules i can really keep.

The references to the “ten commandments” (or words or statements) refer to either Exodus 20: 1 - 17 or to Deuteronomy 5: 6 - 21. The phrase “ten commandments/statements/words” never refers to Exodus 34. That a person can, with a little bit of selective reading, discern ten specific commands following Exodus 34:28 is irrelevant to the discussion of the laws inscribed in stone that were first written by God and destroyed by Moses and then re-carved by Moses at the dictation of God. There are actually three separate places where “Ten Commandments” are mentioned: Exodus 34:28 and Deuteronomy 4:13 and Deuteronomy 10:4. In each case, the reference is to the laws inscribed on the stones (which are listed at Exodus 20:1 -17 and Deuteronomy 5:6 - 21). None of the references are directed toward any verses that happen to occur after the references.

Addendum: As a publicity seeking attention whore who happens to have been raised in a Fundamentalist Christian tradition, Judge Moore would choose to list either some abridgement of the verses listed in Exodus 20:

or in Deuteronomy 5:

Of course, as an officer of the law within the United States, he should have really refrained from attempting to impose his religious beliefs on the citizens of the state in which he served (before he was so justly expelled).

C’mon, tomndebb, he would undoubtedly have used the original language, the King James version, not your wimpy modernized version. What’s a commandment if it don’t have a “Thou Shalt” in front of it?

Ah, yes. The language that was good enough for Jesus.