All the Red Chinese I’ve talked to have had fairly derogatory things to say about any potentially-dissident group I’ve discussed with them, which I inferred arose from a Confucian impatience with rocking the societal boat (e.g. – “Falun Gong made me ashamed to be Chinese”) as well as propaganda-inspired stereotype (e.g., Uighurs were just claiming to be Muslim so they could get beef back when food was rationed and everyone else had to settle for pork, and why are they complaining, they already get affirmative action on university exam scoring [no idea if this is true]).
Tibet Past and Present by Sir Charles Bell. Free version here: http://e-asia.uoregon.edu/easia/nufound.cfm Again. will plug that this website has quite a few free books written in the 1800’s and early 1900’s by travelers to Tibet. Read for yourself what their experiences were…
From Wikipedia: Sir Charles Alfred Bell K.C.I.E. (1870 – 1945), born in Calcutta, was a British-Indian tibetologist. He was educated at Winchester College. After joining the Indian Civil Service, he was appointed Political Officer in Sikkim in 1908. He soon became very influential in Sikkimese and Bhutanese politics, and in 1910 he met the 13th Dalai Lama, who was forced into temporary exile by the Chinese. He got to know the Dalai Lama quite well during this time, and he was later to write his biography (Portrait of the Dalai Lama, published in 1946). At various times he was the British Political Officer for Bhutan, Sikkim and Tibet.
I also recommend The Way of the White Clouds by Lama Anagarika Govinda. Govinda was a German that became a Tibetan Buddhist Monk and did a simply amazing pilgrimage to Mount Kailash in the 1940’s. His book is part travelogue and part deep Tibetan Buddhist introduction.
Although a bit dated now, In Exile From the Land of the Snows by John Avedon is well researched. First published around 1986. The Dragon in the Land of the Snows (which I have not read) seems similar although written recently.
And, in the interest of showing both sides of the coin (as I like to do), one should check out When Serfs Stood up in Tibet, by Anna Louise Strong
http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/strong-anna-louise/1959/tibet/index.htm
She certainly wasn’t unbiased, but I doubt most of the other authors mentioned in this thread are or were, either. As usual, the truth is somewhere in between the two extremes, but we can’t find it unless we get both of the extremes.
Kidney, you and I are pretty much on the same page regarding Han China. We are almost diametric opposites regarding Tibet.
Anna Louise Strong is the best you can do?
Question: did you even read her book that you linked to? With a straight face?
- are you aware that Anna Louise Strong was a communist sympathiser? Anna Louise Strong - Wikipedia
- Are you aware that Ann Louise Strong did not speak Chinese or Tibetan and had to go through interpreters
- Are you aware that Ann Louise Strong was sympathetic to the Russian communist cause and wrote a considerable body of biased work about the Soviet “Paradise.” Do I need to debunk that Soviet Paradise for you?
- Are you aware that Ann Louise Strong went to Tibet approximately 6 months after the Lhasa uprising as part of a managed group of foreign “reporters”? And that she did not speak Chinese nor Tibetan?
- Are you aware that Ann Louise Strong lived in China until her death owing to fear she would face repercussions if she went back to the US? So just maybe she was biased to write what she thought her Han Chinese hosts wanted her to write?
- Are you aware that Ann Louise Strong failed to report on the Great Leap Forward failure or on the mass famine that took place? I don’t think I need to educate you that Beijing was strongly impacted and it was not possible for someone who lived in Beijing like Ann Louise Strong to not have noticed. You can read Hungry Ghosts or the Secret Life of Chairman Mao for more information if you’re not up to speed on what it was like then.
- Are you aware that the first monastary that Ann Louise Strong reports on was probably the world’s largest monastary pre-liberation, was largely abandoned the time she visited and was reduced to a bombed out shell in 1966? Before and after photos here: http://www.colorado.edu/APAS/landscapes/tibet/ganden.html
- Are you aware that Ann Louise Strong makes outlandish claims in her book such as: No claim of Tibet’s independence from China has rallied wide support from the Tibetan people or recognition by any foreign power, in the past seven hundred years.
- Are you aware that most of the drivel in your linked book has been mitculously researched, cited and debunked in works such as In Exile From The Land of the Snows by John Avedon, or the “Legal Status of Tibet” by Michael van Walt van Prag, etc?
- When you visited Lhasa, did you go inside the Jokang temple and see the bullet holes from the 1959 uprising when thousands of civilians fled to Tibet’s holiest shrine in honor of the Han Chinese Princess Wen Chuan? Or did you miss that part during your Lhasa tour?
Choice Wiki quotes: “Strong met W. E. B. Du Bois, who visited Communist China during the Great Leap Forward in the late 1950s. Neither ever supported famine-related criticisms of the Great Leap. Strong wrote a book titled When Serfs Stood Up in Tibet based on her experience during this period, which include the Chinese invasion of Tibet. Partly from fear of losing her passport should she return to the USA, she settled permanently in China until her death in 1970, publishing a “Letter from China.” During that time she fostered a close relationship with Zhou Enlai and was on familiar terms with Mao Zedong.”
So, Ann Louise Strong was an obvious liar about the Soviet Russia and the Great Leap Forward, so do we need to debate whether or not she provides some kind of accurate reporting on Tibet when she depended on her Chinese masters to stay out of jail in the US and for translation? Especially when her “claims” and “eyewitness” accounts have been broadly debunked by multiple sources?
Are you aware that the 10th Panchen Lama was held in Chingcheng Prison outside of Beijing used for political prisoners for many long years. He spent nearly 2 decades in prison or under house arrest? Choekyi Gyaltsen, 10th Panchen Lama - Wikipedia
Question: who is Gedhun Choekyi Nyima?
CG, yes, I knew all of those things about Anna Louise Strong. Is she the best I could do? Probably not, she was just the first who came to mind. Barry Sautman is probably a better example. Strong’s work was absolutely pro-Communist propaganda, but some (if not many) in the pro-Tibet camp are just as devoted to spreading “government-in-exile” propaganda as Anna Louise Strong or Israel Epstein were to spreading pro-Chinese propaganda. Even Patrick French mentioned how he thought about burying some archival papers he found that proved some “Free Tibet” facts and figures were untrue (to his credit, he didn’t). I did mention that she wasn’t unbiased. I linked her book in the spirit of getting all viewpoints on the matter, however ridiculous, on the table. I expected you of all people to understand that.
Thank you for the interesting discussion, everyone. I have a gift certificate from Amazon I have been hoarding, and I think I’ll use it for French’s book. And I’ll take a look at some of the electronic books too, although I do find it somewhat difficult to read long texts on the computer.
Kidney, IMHO there’s a difference between bias and peddling outright propaganda. Anna Louise Strong is not the “other side of the coin” IMHO. I’d love to see a well researched and cited claim from the Chinese side regarding Tibet. I’ve never found one as they all rehash the standard propaganda such as Pavorati or Strong.
It’s well known that Tibet was backward and there were problems prior to 1950. Read My Land, My People by the Dalai Lama if you want to get his take on it. He recognized the issues at the time, was working to change many of the systems, he wanted to modernize Tibet, etc.
Maybe instead of he said, she said about pre 1950 Tibet, can you share your take on the 11th Panchen Lama?
People interested in this topic would do well to do seek out the readings that China Guy has recommended. To his, I would highly recommend;
Tibet, the Road Ahead. (by Dawa Norbu)
So Close to Heaven, (the vanishing Buddhist kingdoms of the Himalayas).(by Barbara Crossette)
The Tibetan Empire in Central Asia. (by Christopher Beckwith)
The Snow Lion’s Turquoise Mane. (by Surya Das)
Tibet, The Undying Flame. (by Kunsang Paljor) (not easily found but definitely worth it, born in Tibet, removed to China, now in Dharamsala, India.)
Tibet. (by Jigme Norbu and Colin M Turnball)
Daughter of Tibet. (by Rinchen Dolma Taring)
Trespassers on The Roof of the World. (by Peter Hopkirk)
Also, (not Tibet specific but pertinent to understanding), Red China Blues, (by Jan Wong)
I own dozens of books on Tibet, (have spent time in both Dharamsala and Ladakh), but these books are my favorites.