Are we sometimes total arseholes?

In My Humble Opinion
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Mods - I know this will prolly end up in GD, but right now I’m just offering my opinion.

I just pulled myself up in the Pit - of all places - and realised that I could probably make the points I wanted to make without using the 1st F&C words, or even the second.

I pretty much do believe that many of the posts that we have all “bitten” on lately and responded to with absolute vitriol were made by persons who according to certain fairytales live under bridges (and I’m not talking about the red Hot Chilli Peppers).

However, to be absolutely fair to everyone on this board - can we reasonably define whether you are part of the “fight against ignorance” by whether your posts are gramatically perfect? Or by whether English is your first and most competent language? Or by whether you’re disabled (sorry - the guy who got pulled up for his totally imperfect typing and spelling the other day claimed thailidomide (sp?) and I realised that Stephen Hawking could be answering posts on this board and we’d probably correct his grammar.

I am basically expressing my opinion that bad grammar, bad spelling, not having English as your first language, or otherwise not living up to some arbitrary standard of fluency or typing speeds, should not - enough - constitute a reason for being vilified on this board.

IMHO, if your arguments for or against any given argument, or if your general questions, make sense then you should be given the benefit of the doubt - grammatical or linguistic errors not withstanding.

Surely if we are all here to fight “ignorance” we are not confining that fight only to those who have a perfect grasp of the English language (which actually isn’t the official language of the USA or England I can can quote a cite for that), or the rules of grammar, or even those who can only grasp pure mathematical language. Are we, by putting down people on this board who we “arbitrarily” evaluate to not be worthy of our answers, actually contributing to ignorance?

Does the fact that you are 6 years old, or you are dyslexic, or English isn’t your first language mean that your questions aren’t worthy of answer on this board?

I’m sure my 9 year old would ask many questions on many message boards if she didn’t feel that she was gonna be ripped to pieces for asking them in the first place. I have no such shame - I’m 40; if I don’t understand something and I’ll ask on as many message boards as it takes until someone explains to me in words I understand. Hell, they can only ban me. But wouldn’t it be so much better if we all did that in the first place, or if we could all assume we were talking to people with only limited knowledge of the subject in the first place…and if we could get them somehow intersted and captivated? Isn’t that what fighting ingnorance is really about? Isn’t it about more than being able to quote my expert witness about yours???

What right did any of us to assume that the thalidamide poster had more than 2 digits? Why didn’t we accept that - cos we all accept the consequences of the drug? We abused his typing!. Yeah, that guy prolly was a troll, but if Steven Hawking hit this chat room today how would any of us know better, and how would he be greeted?

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Dyslexia doesn’t limit a person’s IQ, nor dexterity in typing reflect on one’s clarity of thought. Additionally, English is a blunt instrument (at least the way I wield it) and I don’t pick on other people’s misspellings (unless it is amusing to do so). If ever anyone picked on my poor grasp of English grammer and spelling, I’d heartily agree and restate or redirect my phrasing to the topic at hand. This would be assuming anyone ever noticed what I posted enough to respond to it.

Yes, there are nitpickers. There are people who actually know grammer & how to spell. And they take it very seriously. That doesn’t mean that you have to take it personally.

Are you here for the sizzle or the steak?

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It was a very genuine question, and if you look at my posting history you will find that I am not entirely comfortable in this particular forum.

I do however, restate, that as stated in my original OP, perhaps those who don’t speak perfect English or perfect grammar or perfect maths (have you missed that bit? - I don’t understand higher maths and have to ask for help with it; funnily enough, the people who DO understand it are very willing to explain) might be a little bit intimidated by this MB. Cos it does seem that if you phrase your opinion the wrong way on this board you leave yourself wide open to attack. In my particular case, English is my first language, don’t care about the fact that my grammar is imperfect seeing that English is not the official language of either the US or the UK that or that the usage of the “English” language changes by convention. (oh, and yes, English IS the official language of my country) I am pretty sure that unless push comes to shove on this board and we are both deliberately using obtuse terms, we can make ourselves understood. The point I was trying to make, is that the same option isn’t open to everyone on this board, so just perhaps - and it was only a suggestion - ** I ** (I now totally retract the “we” in my OP) should take a step back and accept that there might be some justifiable reason why someone is coming across on this board apart from the fact that they are a total, uneducated, non-English-speaking, gramatically imperfect FUCKWIT, or asshole or piece of shit.

Hell there might even be a reason why we should stop concentrating on the usage of terms involving male genitalia to describe our displeasure with people. I have never seen anyone gay or straight, male or female take on this argument before, but WTH, it’s Christmas.

BTW Dr Pinky; I was actually arguing on the side of everyone who doesn’t meet the arbitrary standards on rules and grammar. I was actually asking how a person who was dyslexic, or physically not able to type or whose first language wasn’t English could get taken seriously on this board> OK - I’ll make it even broader than the Stephen Hawking question. Tell me how Albert Einstein could post on this board right now and be taken seriously?

Pinky, if you thought I was putting yourself or anyone else in your life down, the exact reverse was my intention. I don’t speak fluent french; I most certainly don’t speak ancient Greek or Latin, but no-one except the totally Ars regard me as unintelligent because I don’t possess those skills.

Therefore, my original question remains valid. How often are we condescending, patronising arseholes on this board because the way in which the OP was phrased didn’t suit our individual and totally arbitrary standards?

And again, BTW - in my OP I recognised the potential for this to spread to other fora; it’s kinda polite that if you want to change the direction of the OP, you inform the original poster and the mods…or you start a new thread…

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In answer to the topic, of course we’re sometimes total assholes - we’re only human, aren’t we? As for the nitpickiness of some of the posters, I think it occurs mostly because it’s an easy shot. I mean, there are few “look at the way he spelled that” posts that aren’t made either in jest or, more to the point, in response to posts/views that just rub you the wrong way.

For instance, Poster A says something that pisses off Poster B. In response, Poster B says something along the lines of, “Poster A is wrong. Look at him, he can’t even tell ‘loose’ apart from ‘lose.’ How can anyone take him seriously?” It’s a lame kind of attack, but it’s an easy one to implement and it strikes at a fairly basic level (if he can’t speak right, he can’t know much of anything), so it happens.

IMHO, nobody really takes these things all that seriously, with the possible exception of some of TUTs posts or the inbred yokel outbreak in the pit in past months. Personally, I think we should ignore 'em - some of these typos can be pretty funny, and loathe am I to say we should have less of them. :smiley:

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Sorry if I came across as snippy. I did say there are those who know grammar and spelling, and enjoy picking nits. It would be easy to infer that I was one of those. Easy, but wrong.

Einstein wouldn’t stand a chance.

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For me, it is about the quality of the ideas and the presentation of the ideas. I don’t agree that we would run off Hawking or Einstein. I haven’t seen people with obviously shining intelligence but who cannot use a spell checker be run off this board. Spell check takes a few moments. My kid’s apparently got dyslexia - one of the tools that will be built into his armamentarium will be spell check.

I’ve encountered quite a few people who have dyslexia and who are seriously intelligent. You can tell the difference between a sloppy thinker who is too lazy to use spell check and a clear thinker who misspells/misuses words due to dyslexia. I’m on a list with a woman with severe dyslexia who also has a couple of PhD’s. Even in the posts she has not spell checked, her intelligence is obvious. That’s not so with some of the people around here claiming English as a second language. Crappy thinking is crappy thinking. Lack of cites or wrongly used cites are the same no matter what the language.

I guess IMO clarity of thinking is going to shine through spelling mistakes. And anyone who knows they have dyslexia and who genuinely wants to communicate, will preview and get the post as clear as possible.

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Cause we’re human, nobody’s perfect (With the possible exception of Cecil)