Hi there
I have an idea that there is an organised universe of sentient being out there. Well gee I know that isn’t a revolutionary idea 
What I assume is that the reason that we are not a part of it is because we haven’t got our aggression under control.
Assumption: There is no aggression allowed out there.
I think the fact that we are still here is fairly good proof of this.
Any comments?
Cheers
Brownie
Fuck, no!
Heh. I figure fortune and galactic exploration favours the bold, so if the aliens are snubbing us because we offend them somehow, screw 'em. We’ll be out there selling them Wal*Mart goods and Big Macs sooner or later.
That seems like a silly assumption. We’ve got no real evidence of life out there let alone intelligent life. An equally valid assumption would be that we were the most intelligent lifeforms in the universe.
Great, then I can assume we’ll kick their pansy asses when we get there.
Uh, I guess.
Marc
Well firstly this is a pretty poor assumption that is often made in Science Fiction novels and which there is no evidence for at all.
Considering on things like this we can get away with a lot of “out there” assumptions if we want to, that doesn’t dismiss it in and of itself. It’s “possible” that the situation you describe does exist, I tend to doubt it though.
This makes no sense whatsoever.
Are we too arrogent??
Not me. In fact I’m incredibly modest. It’s one of the things that make me so great.
Speaking of aggression, Heard any good alien anal probe stories lately?
The Dam slackers.
The assumption that we’re being snubbed by a hypothetical intergalactic community on the grounds of our behaviour is no more or less plausible than, say, an assumption that we’re being snubbed by a hypothetical intergalactic community on the grounds that they don’t like our dress sense.
The simplest hypothesis to explain the fact that we’re still here is that there is no such intergalactic community; the next simplest is that *there may be some sort of intergalactic community, but they haven’t found us yet.
In reality though, usable interstellar travel is probably so near to impossible that it might as well be impossible. (yes, I know we have to have the argument now that involves strained analogies about how stone-age man thought we would never fly or some such - bring it on).
SETI tells us that nobody on this map is using any EM communication with any kind of structure (our military radar could be detected at this range), and indeed that nobody in the galaxy is sweeping the skies with a powerful gigawatt beam or anything. However, we only did this once, in a single direction, in 1974. We’re expecting other civilisations to continually bellow their presence, while we have only whispered, once.
For there to be a silent intergalactic community, they would have had to skip the centuries we are currently enduring, of leaking radiation and slower-than-light colonial expansion, and go straight to technology which currently seems as feasible as flying through the sun or going back in time.
Care to back any of this up with anything beyond vague imaginings?
And are you equating “arrogance” with “aggression”?
I think it would quite feasible for these beings to shield our planet from any incoming radiation.
Well it is not really anything I can back up obviously, that is why they are just imaginings.
Arrogant
Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance.
Aggressive
Inclined to behave in an actively hostile fashion:
Yea, I think both of these would apply
Why is that? By what mechanism?
Well how would I know?
If I knew that I probably wouldn’t be living on this planet would I
Klaatu barada nikto!
brownie dude, firstly you might want to cut back on the Toklas variety.
Second, you might want to check out the book “Stranger in a Strange Land” I suspect it will be able to provide you with more rationality for your ideas than you can bring us to share.
You say you think it’s feasible, then say you have no idea whether or not it is feasible. I can tell you that shielding EM radiation in a way which makes the shield look like empty space is a feat comparable to flying through the sun in terms of actual, practical feasibility. It would be more feasible to imprison us in the Matrix.
A question: We’ve been listening to space for fifty years. If the hypothetical extraterrestrials are fifty light years away and haven’t used electromagnetism or radio or any of the other things we’re listening for in over a hundred years, wouldn’t that explain why we can’t hear them? All the signals have already passed us.
What can you infer from total lack of evidence? Anything you like.
However, the question is really what can you reasonably infer from total lack of evidence. Nothing.
The OP is suffering from a case of If we had some ham, we’d have some ham and eggs, if we had some eggs.
If there were magic gnomes dancing on my desk right now, they might be magical dancing gnomes and therefore they might be able to use their magic to completely conceal their presence from my perception. So if there were magical invisible intangible dancing gnomes, it would be exactly the same (from my viewpoint) as if there were not.
brownie dude, Should I conclude that there are magical invisible intangible dancing gnomes on my desk? If so, why? If not, why not?
Absolutely, Mangetout. I wasn’t taking the space alien side of the argument, I was just asking a question I didn’t know the answer to, and was interested in. I like to think that I’m one of this board’s more fervent attackers of the “you can’t prove it’s not true” school of debating.
I understand; my post was not meant to appear to be in response to yours.
You’re right, but we’ve also looked for optical signals, pulsed signals, gravitational waves and any other kind of structure which is not drowned out by noise. If they are communicating by some means which doesn’t involve spacetime at all, I’d suggest that this approaches warp drive or time travel in terms of practical feasibility. And even then, there’s not one joker, history buff, weapon, power station or propulsion unit leaking such detectable radiation in the entire civilisation?
So, possible, I suppose, but the situation is really becoming rather convoluted. Of course, further away than 30-50 LY we cannot detect anything except directional beams, which Earth’s orbit could just have avoided.
Assumption: There is no poverty in the US.
I think the fact that I’m doing all right is fairly good proof of this.