Are You A Left-Wing Extremist?

That’s an interesting viewpoint. My thesis is that these radical groups more or less exist at some minimal level all the time, but they gain wider currency when there is a serious crisis or problem. Once the crisis or problem is confronted, they fade back into the woodwork.

For example, the Depression brought a lot of people into radical Socialist or Communist movements who otherwise might not have bothered. The government responded with the New Deal and regulations designed to curb excesses and imbalances in the economy. That, coupled with the growth of WWII pretty much ended Socialism or Communism as a force in this country.

In the 60s, we had the Vietnam War and draft and segregation, and a lot of the radical groups seemed to swirl around these issues. Then the war, draft, and segregation ended, and the radical groups largely fell apart.

I was thinking we might see something like this again revolving around free trade issues, but now I think we probably won’t see it, since there are a number of safety nets in the US which blunt the impact of free trade policies, and my guess is that within the next ten years, some of the problems associated with free trade will be tackled. However, I do think this is why we’re seeing the rise of radical viewpoints in other countries which do not have the resources to blunt the impact of free trade policies.

No, I believe that the United States is a fundamentally good force in the world. Although we also have some bad aspects and a few of these are pretty noisy at the moment.

No, I feel Islamic radicalism was cause by governments in Islamic countries allowing religious radicals to gain control of their public education systems. The main target of Islamic radicalism are these governments themselves. But American foreign policy had made the United States a target of Islamic radicalism as well. Which doesn’t mean those policy decisions were wrong.

No, I think it was an individual case of monumental stupidity, helped along by arrogance and duplicity. And, to be charitable, over-optimism and misguided good intentions.

No, every nation and every individual is responsible for their own choices and the consequences of those choices.

I don’t know if it’s the best idea ever, but capitalism certainly is a great idea. But it is powerful and it is not inherently self-balancing. It needs outside control to prevent it from swinging too far out of balance and self-destructing. And, as a seperate issue, taxes are the price we pay for civilization.

No, I feel that American society is fundamentally fair. There is unfairness present, but it is not the dominant aspect of our society.

I don’t think crime and poverty are the fault of society because I don’t see it as a moral issue at that level and because I don’t believe society directly causes these problems. I think crime and poverty are metaphorically like disease - there are some conditions that are more likely than others to result in things like disease or poverty or crime. And it’s in the best interest of society to minimize the conditions that promote these problems.

No, I believe we are ultimately a democracy and we get the type of government that we chose. If there are problems with our government, it’s because we chose to allow them.

No, corporations produce a mix of benefits and problems, but they have no inherent moral value.

I believe that the individuals that control corporations, like most other individuals, favor beliefs that benefit themselves. And I believe that because of the power of corporations to spread ideas, their beliefs have a far larger influence on society than most other beliefs do. But I don’t believe they control society.

No, I feel I am open to ideas from all sources and am willing to consider an idea on its own merit rather than on its source.

No, I feel I offer respect to people who have beliefs other than my own as long as they respect the fact that I have different beliefs and as long as the beliefs are only imposed on those who chose them. But if people seek to impose their beliefs on people who have not chosen those beliefs, then I feel it’s fair to challenge both the believers and the beliefs. And sometimes the sheer silliness of a particular belief may overwhelm my normal sense of respect.

No, I try to oppose ideas with reason not emotion. Although I admit I will somtimes respond to a person in the same manner they addressed me if I feel they are more likely to listen to that type of response.

*1) --believes the United States is a fundamentally negative force in the world.
*
On the whole, historically I believe the US has been a fundamentally positive force in the world. I think we do have some negative effects which have been greatly increased recently.

2) --believes that American imperialism is the primary cause of Islamic radicalism. I think it’s factor, but not the only one. I think religious fundamentalism is becoming more and more prevalent, across cultural barriers. We have a long history of religious radicals in the US, and we’ve still got them. Some of the cultures where Islamic radicals have arisen have a cultural history of violence. Also, political and economic factors have promoted radicalism in underdeveloped countries.

3) --believes that the decision to go to war in Iraq was not an individual case of monumental stupidity, but a consequence of America’s fundamental imperialistic nature. Nope. Monumental stupidity, greed and stubbornness.

4) --tends to blame America for the failures of others—i.e. the failure of our NATO allies to fulfill their responsibilities in Afghanistan. No comment on this one.

5) --doesn’t believe that capitalism, carefully regulated and progressively taxed, is the best liberal idea in human history. I’m not sure what the hell this even means. I’m in favor of capitalism, but I believe that regulation is sometime necessary.

6) --believes American society is fundamentally unfair (as opposed to having unfair aspects that need improvement). I believe that life is fundamentally unfair. I also believe that fundamental fairness is perhaps the most basic goal of the American system of government. We don’t or can’t acheive it, but the basis of our legal and political system is set up to support fundamental fairness.

7) --believes that eternal problems like crime and poverty are the primarily the fault of society. Crime and poverty are social problems and are necessarily tied to the economic, political and social structures of our society. Also, evil and lazy people exist.

8) --believes that America isn’t really a democracy. I hope America is still a democracy. I worry that we are rapidly becoming an oligarchy through economic control of capital and monopolization of the mass media. But I have hope. The internet is a very good thing.

9) --believes that corporations are fundamentally evil. I believe that corporations are fundamentally (by definition) amoral. Corporations are fictional persons that are allowed by law to be sociopaths in pursuit of profits. A corporation’s sole purpose is to create profits for its owners by any legal means available. Because of this, I believe in reasonable regulation in the public interest.

10) --believes in a corporate conspiracy that controls the world. Nope, don’t believe this. I do believe that corporate leadership is highly intertwined and a very small community. I also believe that they share very similar interests and therefore often work toward similar goals. But I don’t think there’s a cabal of CEO’s out there deciding how world events will go down.

11) --is intolerant of good ideas when they come from conservative sources.

I try not to be, but I can’t think of many.

12) --dismissively mocks people of faith, especially those who are opposed to abortion and gay marriage. I try not to mock anyone, but I don’t have a lot of respect for the willfully ignorant, hateful or intolerant. Everybody has a right to believe what they will, but they don’t have a right to enforce their beliefs on others. Don’t believe in abortion? Don’t have one. Don’t believe in gay marriage? Fine, don’t do that either. But don’t spout off about freedom and liberty from one side of your mouth while you['re denying a bunch of people the right to live the way the want.

13) --regularly uses harsh, vulgar, intolerant language to attack moderates or conservatives. Nope. I think this is a valid point about extremists of any stripe. It’s also pretty accurate about dumb people or people with a limited vocabulary.

Private property isn’t the only liberal viewpoint on that issue then. Gerrard Winstanley had a different take, and I’d say he was a liberal.

  1. –believes the United States is a fundamentally negative force in the world.

Check

  1. –believes that American imperialism is the primary cause of Islamic radicalism.

Nope. It’s not helping, but nope.

  1. –believes that the decision to go to war in Iraq was not an individual case of monumental stupidity, but a consequence of America’s fundamental imperialistic nature.

Check

  1. –tends to blame America for the failures of others—i.e. the failure of our NATO allies to fulfill their responsibilities in Afghanistan.

Nope. I blame “America” for America’s failures. I don’t believe NATO had legitimate responsibilities in Afghanistan, BTW.

  1. –doesn’t believe that capitalism, carefully regulated and progressively taxed, is the best liberal idea in human history.

Check

  1. –believes American society is fundamentally unfair (as opposed to having unfair aspects that need improvement).

Check - until America does away with the electoral college and State’s Rights. But hey, “fair” is a subjective term.

  1. –believes that eternal problems like crime and poverty are the primarily the fault of society.

Check

  1. –believes that America isn’t really a democracy.

Check

  1. –believes that corporations are fundamentally evil.
    **
    Nope**

  2. –believes in a corporate conspiracy that controls the world.

Nope

  1. –is intolerant of good ideas when they come from conservative sources.

Nope, I don’t *think *so (I’d like an example, though)

  1. –dismissively mocks people of faith, especially those who are opposed to abortion and gay marriage.

Check

  1. –regularly uses harsh, vulgar, intolerant language to attack moderates or conservatives.

Nope, but depends on what you mean by “regularly”

mmm, 7/13 - clearly needs work.

So was Ludwig von Mises.

“The program of liberalism, therefore, if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property, that is, private ownership of the means of production… All the other demands of liberalism result from his fundamental demand.”

I think I fail the test.

  1. –believes the United States is a fundamentally negative force in the world.

Historically, no. Under the Bush Reich, yes.

  1. –believes that American imperialism is the primary cause of Islamic radicalism.

Of course not. Radical Islam existed even when the US had good leaders.

  1. –believes that the decision to go to war in Iraq was not an individual case of monumental stupidity, but a consequence of America’s fundamental imperialistic nature.

A little of both. It isn’t that Americans are fundamentally imperialist, it is that sometimes imperialists are in control of the government.

  1. –tends to blame America for the failures of others—i.e. the failure of our NATO allies to fulfill their responsibilities in Afghanistan.

Problems in Afghanistan are largely due to the Iraq diversionary war.

  1. –doesn’t believe that capitalism, carefully regulated and progressively taxed, is the best liberal idea in human history.

No, I think the best liberal idea in human history is the US Constitution.

  1. –believes American society is fundamentally unfair (as opposed to having unfair aspects that need improvement).

It isn’t as black and white as that.

  1. –believes that eternal problems like crime and poverty are the primarily the fault of society.
    To a large extent, yes. Guilty as charged.

  2. –believes that America isn’t really a democracy.
    It isn’t. It’s a republic. Guilty as charged.

  3. –believes that corporations are fundamentally evil.
    Some are and some aren’t. I think there is a natural adversarial relationship between corporations and workers and between corporations and government.

  4. –believes in a corporate conspiracy that controls the world.
    Nope.

  5. –is intolerant of good ideas when they come from conservative sources.
    Unknown. I’ve yet to encounter a good idea that came from a conservative source.

  6. –dismissively mocks people of faith, especially those who are opposed to abortion and gay marriage.
    No, I’m dismissive of those who refuse to acknowledge that their vision of faith is the only one.

  7. –regularly uses harsh, vulgar, intolerant language to attack moderates or conservatives.
    Haven’t done so yet.

Did you mean the Declaration of Independence? Jefferson was certainly a liberal, but I think most scholars consider Madison to have been a conservative (despite his opposition to Hamilton’s fiscal policies) and the Constitution to be a conservative document. Madison is George Will’s hero and Favorite Founder, and the conservative James Madison Institute think tank is named for him.

I think that’s right. Liberals, especially of that era, wouldn’t have approved of a strong executive power, for one thing.

I bet we could get more Dopers to buy into this with some changes -
A left-wing extremist exhibits many, but not necessarily all, of the following attributes:

  1. –believes the United States under Bush is a fundamentally negative force in the world.

  2. –believes that the war in Iraq is the primary current cause of Islamic radicalism.

  3. –believes that the decision to go to war in Iraq was not an individual case of monumental stupidity, but a consequence of Bush’s fundamental imperialistic nature.

  4. –tends to blame Bush for the failures of others—i.e. the failure of our NATO allies to fulfill their responsibilities in Afghanistan.

  5. –doesn’t believe that capitalism under Bush, carefully regulated and progressively taxed, is the best liberal idea in human history.

  6. –believes American society under Bush is fundamentally unfair (as opposed to having unfair aspects that need improvement).

  7. –believes that eternal problems like crime and poverty are the primarily the fault of Bush.

  8. –believes that America under Bush isn’t really a democracy.

  9. –believes that corporations in Bush’s America are fundamentally evil.

  10. –believes in a NPAC conspiracy that controls the world.

  11. –is intolerant of good ideas when they come from conservative sources.

  12. –dismissively mocks people of faith, especially those who are opposed to abortion and gay marriage.

  13. –regularly uses harsh, vulgar, intolerant language to attack moderates or conservatives.

Regards,
Shodan

We very likely read very different meanings into the word “liberal”. For me, it is a synonym for “progressive”. The notion that people have rights which cannot be denied by governments is in my view a very progressive one, particularly when you look at the time in which the Constitution was written. The Declaration certainly was another progressive document, but without the Constitution it wouldn’t have meant much.

  1. –believes the United States is a fundamentally negative force in the world.

I believe the US HAS been a fundamentally positive force in the world. Lately, in the past 40-50 years, it has been steadily growing more and more negative.

  1. –believes that American imperialism is the primary cause of Islamic radicalism.

I believe it is 50% of the cause of Islamic radicalism. The other 50% is because of the radical fundamentalist Islamists.

  1. –believes that the decision to go to war in Iraq was not an individual case of monumental stupidity, but a consequence of America’s fundamental imperialistic nature.

I kinda believe this, but I also believe it was monumental stupidity.

  1. –tends to blame America for the failures of others—i.e. the failure of our NATO allies to fulfill their responsibilities in Afghanistan.

I don’t blame America for anything. I blame the government for exclusionist tactics which prevent foreign nations from even wanting to help.

  1. –doesn’t believe that capitalism, carefully regulated and progressively taxed, is the best liberal idea in human history.

It’s a great idea, not the best.

  1. –believes American society is fundamentally unfair (as opposed to having unfair aspects that need improvement).

It is unfair in the sense that all men are not created equally. It is absolute truth that some people have far more advantage than others. Fair in that you can achieve success no matter what background that you come from.

  1. –believes that eternal problems like crime and poverty are the primarily the fault of society.

SOME crime and poverty can be directly attributed to society.

  1. –believes that America isn’t really a democracy.

It is a representative government, not a democratic.

  1. –believes that corporations are fundamentally evil.

Corporations as a concept are neither good nor evil. Corporate philosophy taken to extremes can be and is evil.

  1. –believes in a corporate conspiracy that controls the world.

Not the entire world, but I believe there are a lot of corporate conspiracies.

  1. –is intolerant of good ideas when they come from conservative sources.

I would take any good ideas, as long as they are explained properly.

  1. –dismissively mocks people of faith, especially those who are opposed to abortion and gay marriage.

I am only as dismissive of these people as they are to the people they are opposed to. If they have good reasoning in their opposition, I will listen and respect their ideas. If they are just full of hate, they are dismissed off hand.

  1. –regularly uses harsh, vulgar, intolerant language to attack moderates or conservatives.

Not against moderates or sane conservatives.

No. How about Bush is a fundamentally negative force in the world (and in the US).

Of course not. Radical Islam just uses it as a recruiting tool.

No. It’s a consequence of Bush’ monumental stupidity.

Nope.

This one doesn’t even make sense. Capitalism under Bush was certainly not a liberal idea. He’s not the best shepherd of capitalism but that’s not capitalism’s fault.

Bush has made the US significantly more unfair than it used to be (wiretapping, suspension of habeas corpus, etc.)

Do you actually think that liberals believe this horseshit?

Snerk. No comment.

Corporations are amoral and self-serving without regard to the President. They’re no more evil under Bush than they were under clinton. Presidents don’t affect the “morality” of corporations.

No.

If I ever heard a good idea from a conservative source I would embrace it.

Same answer as the first test.

Same answer as the first test.

Just so you know, liberals do not equate the President with the country. That’s fascist conservative shit, not commie liberal shit.

My answer’s to Klein’s list are pretty typical of what’s been said above, so let’s try Shodan’s.

  1. –believes the United States under Bush is a fundamentally negative force in the world.
    Yep.

  2. –believes that the war in Iraq is the primary current cause of Islamic radicalism.
    Nope. It’s not even the biggest irritant (that’d be Israel/Palestine still), but it is a really big one.

  3. –believes that the decision to go to war in Iraq was not an individual case of monumental stupidity, but a consequence of Bush’s fundamental imperialistic nature.
    I’m not sure why Bush did it. I’ll be generous to Shodan and count that as a provisional “yes”.

  4. –tends to blame Bush for the failures of others—i.e. the failure of our NATO allies to fulfill their responsibilities in Afghanistan.
    That’s a loaded question, and I reject it.

  5. –doesn’t believe that capitalism under Bush, carefully regulated and progressively taxed, is the best liberal idea in human history.
    Capitalism under anybody isn’t the best liberal idea. Free Speech is.

  6. –believes American society under Bush is fundamentally unfair (as opposed to having unfair aspects that need improvement).
    Yes, but it isn’t Bush’s fault. Institutionalized racism, sexism and homophobia predate him by centuries. We are improving though, even in this era. Is that wimpy enough to make it a “no”?

  7. –believes that eternal problems like crime and poverty are the primarily the fault of Bush.
    No. That’d be retarded.

  8. –believes that America under Bush isn’t really a democracy.
    It isn’t. It remains a republic. Duh. Or did I miss it when we were all individually asked to vote on going to war in Iraq?

  9. –believes that corporations in Bush’s America are fundamentally evil.
    No. They’re fundamentally self-interested, but not evil.

  10. –believes in a NPAC conspiracy that controls the world.
    I assume you mean PNAC. They obviously aren’t in control of anything. May I suggest you revise this to “that wants to control the world”? I may even agree with that one.

  11. –is intolerant of good ideas when they come from conservative sources.
    I try not to be, but we all have our biases.

  12. –dismissively mocks people of faith, especially those who are opposed to abortion and gay marriage.
    I see no problem with mocking the stupid and intolerant, no matter what the source of those opinions.

  13. –regularly uses harsh, vulgar, intolerant language to attack moderates or conservatives.
    We all fail to be polite now and again. Other than “vulgar” I don’t see the problem here, except perhaps as a matter of PR. Why should I allow political statements I disagree with to go unchallenged?

I think both revisions of this list, as well as Klein’s right-wing one miss the point. Opinions far removed from the mainstream may be characterized as “extreme”, but who cares? Extremism is only a problem when it advocates violence, either as an end or a means. The last three are the only ones that even come close to touching on that point.

  1. US a negative force. Read the international polls. We are dropping like a rock.

  2. Iraq war causing Islamic Fund,- just the latest. Russia,France and England poisoned that well before we stupidly took a drink.It is however a great recruiting tool.

3.War stupid or imperial-Both. They thought it would be easy .wrong. They did not go to free the Iraqis and did not go to leave quietly.

4.NATO-Allies don’t have to follow blindly. We do stupid we should expect to do it alone. mostly

5.Capitalism best idea.-with regulation and taxing it sems to work.Right now its trying to go worldwide is getting ugly. There needs to be international regulation.

6.American society unfair. Ask Paris Hilton. You are what you were born. We do not all have same starting point but all countries have that characteristic.

7.Crime and poverty societies fault… Does not explain Enron. Some people are just crooks and bear constant watching.

8.Is America a democracy- no never was.

9.Corporations evil–no they are neutral. Evil people will take over if allowed. That is why we require regulation and policing.

10.Corporate conspiracy to take over. Yep. Perhaps not planned but slowly eroding safeguards to protect the people is occurring. They have common interests and will try to get extremely favorable advantages. The people have to be vigilant.

11.Intolerant of conservative ideas. No just the bad ones. Which is vast majority.

12.Dismissive and mocking of people of faith. Never I was one once.

13.Harsh or intolerant language toward conservative. Fuck no they are so cute as they justify their greed and hide it in religious overtones. Made up a term compassionate conservatives. Revealing because they had to. It is selfish and uncaring in its greed and grasp for power.

  1. –believes the United States is a fundamentally negative force in the world.

Fundamentally, no; but currently, in many ways, yes.

  1. –believes that American imperialism is the primary cause of Islamic radicalism.

Primary cause, no; exacerbates, yes.

  1. –believes that the decision to go to war in Iraq was not an individual case of monumental stupidity, but a consequence of America’s fundamental imperialistic nature.

A little bit of both. The invidual stupid guy has (had?) some serious backing.

  1. –tends to blame America for the failures of others—i.e. the failure of our NATO allies to fulfill their responsibilities in Afghanistan.

The US has screwed some shit up, is it wrong to point that out? But sure, if some allies didn’t do their jobs well, point that out, too.

  1. –doesn’t believe that capitalism, carefully regulated and progressively taxed, is the best liberal idea in human history.

I don’t believe that. I’ll take freedom of speech, private property, uh, right to trial by peers, all ahead of capitalism. I suppose capitalism is a consequence of the first two, though.

  1. –believes American society is fundamentally unfair (as opposed to having unfair aspects that need improvement).

Yeah, it’s unfair, but don’t see how “fundamentally” applies. Humans are fundamentally unfair, so I guess by extension American society is, too.

  1. –believes that eternal problems like crime and poverty are the primarily the fault of society.

Fault of? Hmmm, no. Responsibility of, yes.

  1. –believes that America isn’t really a democracy.

It’s not, depending on how one defines terms.

  1. –believes that corporations are fundamentally evil.

Corporations are neither good or evil; they’ll simply do what beings profit, the goodness or evilness of the policy is not germane, although legailty might be.

  1. –believes in a corporate conspiracy that controls the world.

Silly. However, it does seem like corporate interests onsistently trump those of individual Americans.

  1. –is intolerant of good ideas when they come from conservative sources.

Silly generalization. I need some examples.

  1. –dismissively mocks people of faith, especially those who are opposed to abortion and gay marriage.

Sure. I’ve never heard an argument against gay marriage that wasn’t fundamentally irrational and illogical. I’m unafraid of saying so, on the record. Abortion is a greyer area.

  1. –regularly uses harsh, vulgar, intolerant language to attack moderates or conservatives.

Nope.
What do I win? Am I an extremist?

I realize I’m late and all, but polls belong in IMHO. If you want to rant, then post a new thread.

Jeez . . . project much, Joe?

I mean, check out Democratic Underground, check out Free Republic, and see which one drips more venom.

Merriam-Webster:
democracy
1 a: government by the people; especially : rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections

I consider myself a leftist semi-extremist who never completely lived up to what I believe in:

  1. –I believe the United States is fundamentally confused.

  2. –I believe that testosterone is the primary cause of American imperialism.

  3. –I believe that the decision to go to war in Iraq was rooted in psychological problems and personality disorders.

  4. –I tend to blame the general population for not being better informed about candidates and world cultures.

  5. –I believe that elucidator’s signature is the best principle in human history.

  6. –I believe I am unfair and need improvement.

  7. –I believe poverty doesn’t have to be an eternal problem.

  8. –I believe that America is trying unsuccessfully to be a Democratic Republic.

  9. –I believe that being in a position of extreme power in a corporation can have a corrupting influence on a personality if not guarded against carefully.

  10. –I believe in a corporate conspiracy that controls the media.

  11. –I regain consciousness eventually after good ideas come from conservative sources.

  12. –I am a person of faith who is pro-choice, anti-abortion, pro-love and pro-freedom.

  13. –I regularly use harsh, vulgar, intolerant language to attack everybody for the first hour that I’m awake.