Are you trying to anger people, Microsoft?

The BBQ Pit
1

OK, so I have had some serious computer issues lately (all hardawre, though.) I finally got a workaround. and was all set to install Win XP. I went out and bought a nice, REAL, legal copy of Windows XP Professional with Service Pack 2. I boguht it with a hard drive, so I got the OEM version, which is a tad cheaper. Now, somehow, during my previous install attempts, the disc got scratched all to Hell. OK, completly my fault, I’ll admit, but there must be some way to get a replacement disc, right? OK, I’ll look in the manual for a number to call…what? There’s no number in the manual? Surely there has to be, what if someoen has trouble and needs to get support? Ahh…chapter for support, let’s see…go online…or try this online site…if that fails, email us at…what the fuck? Did it occur to the peopel writing this manual (not a full one, obviously, a “Getting started” thing, since it’s OEM,) that maybe, jsut maybe. someone might have bought this software because they are, or I don’t kiow…setting up a new computer and can’t get on to the internet until it’s done?! What kind of asshat are you to autoamtically assume any problems I have will only occur after installation, and not be in any way related to internet access?

OK, fine, says I, I will wait till Sunday and go online at work and find some answers. And indeed, I find answers, and there IS a number to call! Oh, what’s this little note…first two service calls are free, after that, they cost $35 a piece…

THE HELL!!! You charge people for getting technical support? What kind of ass-backwards piece of shit company are you running over there? Oh, I see…I shouldn’t have to actually call you since obviously my problem is something that can be solved by some little link on your webpage…well, no, it can’t, jerk-wads. I need to speak to an actual person about this, as suprising as that sounds. Yet you seem to think it’s perfectly normal to charge $35 for me to talk to you. Hell, if I have to call you more than four times it would be cheaper to buy a new copy of XP that will have a working disc than to try and get this one replaced! I dread the response I’ll actually get when I do ask for a new CD.

“I’m sorry, we can’t give replacements, it will promote piracy.”

Umm…no, in no way will it do that. If I wanted extra discs to give to my friends so we can all cheat you out of the money you practically steal from us, I’ll just copy it with a CD burner. The CD key is what keeps piracy down (although still not all that much,) not the physical CD itself.

And MS wonders why people ahte them. It’s not thatwe are forced to buy your product ok, mayeb a little bit of that,) but it’s mostly that after we are forced to buy it, it doesn’t work right, and you seem to go out of your way to avoid helping us get it to work. Christ, I should just switch to Linux and save myself the agony.

(And the first person in this thread to suggest gettign a Mac can preemptively go to Hell.)

2

[bouv], I agree with your rant that some companies have made customer service almost non-existant. In the interest of getting you up and running, however, if you happen to know someone who has a copy of Win XP professional, it is perfectly legal to use their CD to install, as long as you use your own CD Key, which came with the copy you bought. Good luck.

3

I’d be all over that, but I moved six months ago and all my friends are far away. Plus, I’m not sure if a CD key designed for XP w/ SP2 will work on a regular XP CD. I’d be willing to try, though, if I did have the CD.

4

Do Ford provide unlimited free services? Do GM replace your car parts for free if you ding your door in the car park? Do bears shit on the Pope? C’mon, be reasonable - there’s 3 zillion Windows PCs out there. If MS provided free service calls and CDs to anyone who wanted them, they wouldn’t be one of the biggest companies in the world, they’d be a smoking fiscal crater.

FWIW, if you do manage to borrow a CD, a valid Windows XP key is a valid key no matter what service pack you’ve got. Your original key will work perfectly well with anyone’s install CD, and even if you can’t find someone with an XP+SP2 CD, you can just update your installation once you’re back online.

5

Last I checked, Ford sells cars outright, not just ‘license’ users to drive them. If all I own is the ‘license’ to drive the car, you’re damn well right I expect Ford to maintain in it new condition for the life of the ‘license’. If they don’t like that responsibility, they shouldn’t have entered into the agreement with me.

6

Ford does indeed license/lease cars, mostly to corporate customers. I strongly doubt their terms of service commit to providing an endless stream of new cars to customers who drive them into walls. And if they provide periodic services, that will be both noted in the lease agreement and included in the price. Nowhere in the XP EULA does it mention getting a free supply of replacement CDs.

Basically, if you pay an OEM price for a licence agreement that doesn’t explicitly say that you’re getting top-line service included, you shouldn’t be surprised when you don’t.

7

Last I heard, Ford doesn’t charge you 35 bucks a phone call to talk to a service rep either.

God, computer industry tech support f’ing sucks these days. If they’re not charging you out the damn ass for the privilege of talking to them, they’re forwarding you to some clueless yahoo in India.

8

A car lease is hardly the equivalent of a software license to use a program. In the case of a vehicle, the car represents the value of the product offered to the user; in the case of a software program, the value of the product is not in the physical CD, but in the program contained thereon. If I purchase a license to use their program, it is not tied to the physical condition of the CD. I still have the right to use the program, and the licensor has the responsibility to allow me to use the program. In these days of broadband connections and online publishing, the licensor has no excuse for not supplying me with a copy of the software whenever I need it, whether I drove the CD into a wall or not. If I have a valid product key, I see no reason beyond greed and sheer obstinacy why they should not provide me with a download of the original program I purchased. Many software companies do this, notably anti-virus software from both McAfee and Norton, which may be downloaded and reinstalled as many times as you require. Microsoft is just being assholish.

9

Check your EULA, but it’s usually allowable for you to make a backup copy of your OS for recovery purposes. Copy your install CD, or someone else’s, and save the copy for next time.

Did you try a disc cleaner/fixer on your scratched disc? Sometimes it helps.

10

Frankly, I don’t think Microsoft cares. Why should they, if you’re going to use their stuff anyway?

Jealousy is such an ugly emotion. :smiley:

11

Geez, lighten up. I have as many (or more) problems with Microsoft as anybody, but I’ve spent a few weeks answering their tech support lines, and IMHO they provided way better support than most in the industry.
I didn’t handle replacement media, but IIRC there is a separate department for just that. For calls that could require hours to fix, the rate was pretty reasonable I thought, especially since you can get it refunded if you just ask.

Give the number a call and then come back mad about something that actually happened, not just in your imagination.

12

Bwah. And to think, some people don’t install Linux because they don’t think there’s anyone to call for tech support.

Fuck 'em harder, Microshaft! Make Linux look better and better!

Oh, and Macs are too damned expensive.

13

Every time I have tried one of those things, the disc became more scratched than before I used it. Not just a little, either. I once had a CD that skipped on one track, and I could see a small little scratch, after I used the “CD Dr.”, I was left with a CD that looked like it went five rounds with steel wool. Needles to say, it didn’y play at all.

14

Got to agree with Nanoda, maybe you should freek out after your first two free service calls are used up. FFS, one might do it for all you know.

15

Wait, is this something they actually told you, or are you arguing with a figment of your imagination?

16

Not precisely, but the point is that both represent licence agreements for which both parties agree terms beforehand, and agree a price. A free replacement service is not included in the price of a Microsoft OS, and this is plainly visible in the EULA (which I’m rather surprised to note isn’t too bewildering in the case of Win XP). There is no implicit undertaking to provide unlimited service in the word “licence” - the licence does what it says, no more, no less. It’s not Microsoft’s fault if you spanner up your CD, just as it’s not Ford’s fault if you drive your car into a wall. Why should they be expected to rectify your incompetence, except by prior agreement? To do so would be to open themselves up to unlimited cost over which they have no control.

More pragmatically, do you seriously think the makers of the most-pirated software in the world are going to provide a free download service to anyone who says “oops, lost my disc”? Given the wide availability of valid XP keys, they would effectively be providing bandwidth to the pirates of the world, gratis. This just doesn’t make sense, when it’s perfectly legal for genuine users to simply make a backup.

17

Hey, have you thought about getting a M–

Uh… M…Mainframe running Linux?

18

It’s not their fault, no. But failing to provide a reasonable remedy for what has to be a relatively common problem is certainly pittable. As far as I know, no one is expecting them to provide a free replacement service. How about a replacement disc for $10, or some other reasonable cost that would cover their overhead?

Well, the pirates seem to be doing fine without this service. What do you think they’d lose from such a proposition? Keying replacement downloads to the cd key would easily eliminate the potential for abuse anyway.

The only reason that Microsoft doesn’t offer these sensible alternatives is that they hope some poor schmoe “doing the right thing” is going to shell out another $100 for a copy.

19

They’ve got to lose the considerable cost of providing a monolithic download service whose users at best would be mostly pirates. Even pirates have to pay for bandwidth, and why is anyone going to bother hosting XP illicitly if MS are nice enough to do it for them? Hell, MS don’t even provide an electronic shop - providing CD image downloads is really resource-intensive, particularly when your software runs on 99% of the world’s desktops. Linking downloads to keys won’t work due to the availability of keygens for XP. Getting a valid key is a pretty trivial task these days.

I agree that a $10 charge for a replacement CD might be reasonable, and several software companies do this. I can still see how MS might regard this as enabling piracy. The CDs are holographically marked to indicate their genuine nature - providing a cheap supply of genuine CDs would be a considerable boon to the people who actually sell counterfeits as genuine, and would make tracking down counterfeiters a whole lot more difficult. Not really a pittable business choice, really, and coming after a complaint that MS “merely” provide two free support calls, it ain’t much to hang your hat on.

20

Have you seen this page ? It appears that you should be talking to the Supplemental Parts team, not Tech Support, for your media replacement needs.