Same experience as LOHD - pediatrician and just out of habit I interact with kids when out all the time. Never a problem.
It might just be that your inner creepiness shines through.
Delusional? OK. That’s classy.
Yes. Please. Keep teaching me about class.
Let me explain why no women are disagreeing with me. It’s because they know I’m right. They are suspicious of most non-elderly-looking single men by themselves they see out in public, if those men smile at or glance at their kids for more than a brief second.
Let me be the first, then. I am not at all suspicious of non-elderly-looking single men by themselves in public, whether or not they smile at my kids.
Woman, check.
Under 50, check.
Mother, check.
Anybody who smiled nicely to my kids got a big smile back from me. People who are legitimately nice to my kids are a-ok in my book.
Children smile at me and their mothers chat with me, despite my not particularly liking children and wishing that we could have a non-child-centric conversation. The only criminals are the babies who try to grab my eyeballs. WTF is it about babies and eyeballs? Damn [del]juvenile[/del] infantile delinquents.
When I invited you to keep teaching me about how to be classy, that was sarcasm. I was being sarcastic because you’re not being classy. Or, y’know, right. You have mistaken beliefs about how moms generally view men who smile at kids. Those mistaken beliefs are correctly characterized as a delusion.
Horseshit!
If that were me & IF the cops were called, I’d simply say, “Officer, please ask her where she was when Issupposedly exposed myself. Ask her if I was in the locker room, the MENS locker room. When she admits to that, please charge her as a peeping Tom.”
Her calling the cops is akin to the idjit who calls the PD because he didn’t get all of the drugs they just bought.
Or maybe he’s black.
Of the two options the women had, either choice would have only been wrong because arbitrary social taboos. Having not spent much time in public locker rooms I probably would’ve a coin flip’s chance of guessing which option everyone had decided was “right”.
The only “management” around was a college-age lifeguard who, as I mentioned upthread, came through the locker room, walked past the lady (within two to three feet), clearly saw what was going on and did a double-take, but didn’t say anything.
That’s interesting. I thought it was obvious, but then as I say I have been in that locker room about a hundred times a year for the past decade-plus. I suppose I can’t relate with the perspective of someone who just enrolled her kid in swimming lessons and otherwise has not dealt with it. She should have asked at the desk in that case though.
Agreed on both counts–meaning the extreme scenario is taking it too far, but the people totally pooh-poohing that double standard are not right either.
Yeah, as I say: I wonder if the people strenuously arguing with you are doing so mainly because your earlier scenarios were hyperbolic. What you’re saying here is IME true. I have four kids, spent years substitute teaching, and generally like kids (in a non-creepy sense). I definitely notice a difference if I smile at kids or talk to them when I’m with my own kids, compared to if I’m alone. And, I mean, I think I’d probably be guilty of this suspicious attitude myself if an unaccompanied man was friendly toward my kids, so it’s not like I’m taking umbrage at people doing something I’m too enlightened to do.
Yes, this. My apologies if it wasn’t clear to everyone. To wit:
Area Mom Freaking Out For No Reason Again
No, it’s because we hear the same “Boo hoo! Women have the REAL privilege!” delusional denial of systemic misogyny ALL THE TIME, especially online, and most of us are tired of hearing it, so we roll our eyes and DNFTT.
There are none so blind as those who will not see, and all that. Why should I waste my time? I have more enjoyable and productive debates I can engage in.
I’ll back you. I’m over 50, and didn’t mind men smiling at my kids in public. But my husband adores kids (in a non-creepy way) and always smiles at them, and even when he’s with me and the kids, sometimes moms are really skeeved out to have a man notice their child, let alone smile and say “hi”.
Once, at an airport, he was sitting next to me and smiled and said “hi” to a small child sitting in its mother’s lap, and the woman clutched the child and glowered at him threateningly. He hadn’t moved. There was security everywhere. The child was IN HER LAP. But she found him threatening.
I hear you, Kaio. It is histrionic, tiresome, irksome.
At the same time, do you think it’s completely untrue in 2015 (in the Western world) to say that gender power relations have gotten murkier than they used to be, with women holding some advantages and men others?
But plenty of people *are *over the top. I had a woman once threaten to call the police on me at a playground because I was not by my four-year-old’s side at all times. (I was alternately helping him up ladders and stuff and observing his play from a bench. I doubt I was ever more than about 15 feet from him–it was a small playground.)
She never did call, at least not to my knowledge, but she did abruptly leave the playground when it became clear I was not going to change my ways to suit her. “Come on, [son’s name],” she told her boy, hustling him into the stroller. “We’re going home. I am NOT going to let you watch another child get hurt because his father doesn’t care enough about him to make sure he’s safe.”
So while I agree that accusations of improper behavior would be unlikely (and while I would have simply changed in front of her as if she weren’t there), I do think there is some risk; at least, I would not rule it out. People is nuts.
I think such a woman should be politely but firmly confronted: “This is the men’s locker room. You wouldn’t like it if a man entered the women’s locker room, so we’d appreciate it if you followed the same courtesy of staying out of the men’s room.”
Well, the woman can be as nuts as she wants to be. Once the cops get involved and start investigating her claims the some dude assaulted her in the men’s locker room, they’re going to see through the non nonsensical bull shit right away.
I infer from some of the posters on this board that all a woman has to do is point her finger and yell “rape!” and the cops will come a run’n to arrest the man post haste. I disagree with that notion.
It’s “murky” because many of the people in power can’t even see their privilege, can’t even acknowledge that our cultural system is set up to favor them and present barriers to others, so what looks like a “loss” to them is actually only a leveling of the playing field. Some are clinging to “this is the way it’s always been” as if it’s some sort of shield against the reality of marginalization.
What some see as women holding advantages is actually the flip side of misogyny. What a lot of folks seem not to realize that misogyny can and does have a negative impact on men, too. When capable male parents are denied access to their children in favor of their ex-wife, it’s because of the long-held, deeply ingrained stereotype that it’s women who are the nurturers, home makers, and best suited to child care. This implies that a man’s role is none of those things. And because this stereotype is so deeply ingrained, and has the power of hundreds of years of systemic patriarchy behind it, an awful lot of people will default to this way of thinking without ever considering WHY they believe this is true. (See also, “toxic masculinity.”)
Some complain that affirmative action discriminates against men, but the fact is that there have been actual studies that show that people, men and women both, will review resumes identical in every way but the name, and come to the conclusion that the male-named applicant is more capable. (Google “resume test women” for more. The resume test shows racial bias, too, when the variable is a “black” sounding name versus a “white” sounding one.) The bias exists, it’s so deep it’s subconscious, and doing nothing won’t stop it. It’s not discriminatory to actively correct for this bias, it’s discriminatory to let it continue. There is no such thing as hiring based on merit alone. Not now, not for quite some time into the future. These cultural defaults change extremely slowly, and will only change faster if we behave better than our subconscious bias dictates.
No analogy is perfect!
Reminds me of white people who say “racism? I don’t see it. I don’t think it’s a big deal.”
They’re not black 24 hours a day. They don’t see & hear the occasional racist thing shouted from someone’s passing car.
Then we have the apologist White Knights with nice jobs & comfortable lives. “I’m a white male and I can tell you I’m privileged! Any man who says otherwise is a fat ugly basement dwelling misogynist pimply-faced video gamer!”
It’s easy to say “I’m a woman and I love it when strange men smile at my children!”
That’s nice for you.