Argentina Nazi Stuff - Illegal?

What exactly was illegal about the Nazi cache found in Argentina? From what I can tell, they are still investigating where it came from, so that isn’t what makes it illegal.

I know some countries have much more limited freedom of speech than the US, so would the exact same cache be illegal in the United States?

Such things certainly wouldn’t be illegal in the UK. I suspect Germany and some other european countries will have laws against them but then they also have laws against holocaust denial which seems fundamentally at odds with free speech to me, but their house their rules I guess.

What I can glean from German news sources also leaves me puzzled what legal angle the Argentinan authorities are pursuing. There is a mention of the dealer in whose possession they were found being prosecuted for arts smuggling - possibly the age of the artifacts (pre-1945) makes them subject to permit requirements for dealing. Usually countries only get excited about the export of old artifacts.

The objects seem to be ceremonial/devotional objects pertaining to Nazism, manufactured in the time of the Third Reich. They do not seem to be objects stolen from victims of Nazism. They are neither a national treasure of Argentinia nor of Germany. The only worthwhile angle that might be pursued is tracing possible fugitives from justice who might thave taken them to Argentinia and later putting them on the market (it looks like the collection of a Nazi-artefacts collector accumulated from several sources).

(added after edit timeout):

The objects themselves are not illegal to possess in Germany; to the extent that they have Nazi symbols it is only illegal to publicly display them.

Yes this seems to be the main reason for a criminal investigation into the items. AFAIK Argentina doesn’t have a law against Nazi memorabilia in general. But the only likely origin of these items is high-ranking Nazi officials who fled prosecution for war crimes. Their presence indicates crimes had to be committed somewhere along the line for them to be in Argentina.

From what I’ve read the dealer who had them is under investigation but remains free. The police found the Nazi stash because they were already investigating him for some undisclosed crime. They got a warrant to search his place based on that investigation and found this stuff by accident.

Looking at the photograph this NYT article, it does not look like prestiguous objects that a high-ranking official would take with him.

It’s Nazi-themed kitsch (the objects in the first pictures look to me like someone looted them from one of Hermann Göring’s palaces. Would agree with the horn-hilted ceremonial dagger bearing a hunting-related greeting - one of Göring’s titles was Reich Chief Huntsman. He’d also have deserved the title of Reich Bling Collector)

Certainly not what you’d take in the way of high value portable assets that you’d take with you on the run. Among the other objects are toys, harmonicas, and some instruments apparently connected with the operation of a light mortar that was obsolete by the end of WWII.

The only common denominator is that the objects conspiciously show that they are from the Third Reich period. So I’d assume not necessarily ‘high-ranking Nazis brought them to Argentina’ but ‘a collector obsessed with Nazism bought everything that he could get his hands on and that had a swastika on it’.

The dagger looks like the special issued by Himmler to high ranking SS officials.

On June 21, 1936, another variant of the dagger was introduced, which was awarded only to those SS officers and NCOs who had joined the Schutzstaffel before 1933. This dagger was identical to the 1933 model but the scabbard was fitted with a chain made of rectangular plaques adorned with skulls and SS runes and an additional silver fitting with swastika motif.

High-ranking SS leaders were presented a special dagger bearing the inscription “In warm camaraderie, H. Himmler”. There were numerous variants of this dagger, which were handed to the recipients by Heinrich Himmler personally. These gift daggers were identical to the general-issue daggers but were made of top quality materials and had gilded inscriptions. They were and still are considered a rarity due to the low number issued.

The handle of the dagger doesn’t seem to be as finely crafted as the blade and case would warrant, perhaps the handle had broken and been replaced with one from a lesser blade, such a handle appears on Nazi era officers cutlasses…

It was remiss of me not to mention it before but whenever the subject of nazi memorabilia comes up my mind is drawn to this Mitchell and Webb sketch. Could any nazi honestly not have realised, looking at their decorative items, that they were indeed destined to be the “baddies”

I imagine it all coming from a Third Reich souvenir shop, or a Nazi-themed Things Remembered store.

They think it might be stuff that Hitler brought with him after the war.

It looks like the handle was made from a piece of antler, deliberately not smoothed - not unusual for hunting-themed decorative items. The sheath has the engraving Waidmanns Heil! - a traditional greeting among German hunters, not pertaining to Nazism, nonwithstanding the Heil part. So it is not a standard ceremonial dagger but a kitschy dagger for a huntsman. Not a practical hunter, at that, because they of course eschew shiny items when hunting. That’s why I associated it with Göring.

From an article in my local paper:

“Among the disturbing items were toys (that) would have been used to indoctrinate children, a large statue of the Nazi Eagle above a swastika, a Nazi hourglass and a box of harmonicas.”

WTF? How is a box of harmonicas “disturbing”? Was there accompanying video of Goebbels and Goering wailing the blues?

The Nazi hourglass, OK, especially if used by the Gestapo. “The sands of your miserable existence will run out like the sand in this hourglass, if you do not tell us what we want to know.”

“ReichsBlingMinister” has a ring. (It’s huge, gold, and has a 10-carat CZ.) :smiley:

As I understood the article, they raided the guy’s house and found this stuff because he was suspected of smuggling or selling smuggled or stolen paintings. Now, where is somewhere that stolen paintings might come from? I suppose the provenance of ReichBlingMeister stuff might point to a source of the other items, like European paintings.

I’m going to guess the harmonicas were embossed with swastikas… Kitsch indeed.

The children are the hope of the future, and their molding to being cultured and civilized is of tremendous imprtance.

This game was produced by a mass-market vendor, and in fact was decried by the SS for trivializing their work:.

Juden Raus! (lit. “Jews Out!”) is a Cross and Circle-style game published in Germany by Günther & Co. in 1936.[3][4] The game was advertised as “entertaining, instructive and solidly constructed.”[5] The game’s equipment includes a pair of dice, a game board, and several game piece figurines with large pointed hats meant to represent Jews.[6]

Players take turns rolling the dice and moving their “Jews” across the map toward “collection points” outside the city walls for deportation to Mandate Palestine.[7] Written on the game board, it says “If you manage to see off 6 Jews, you’ve won a clear victory!”[6]
The game examined.

The picture I saw of the box of harmonicas had a Hitler Youth type picture on the underside of the lid. Visible with the lid up. So it was kid stuff salted with Nazi symbolism.

The sound quality is terrible in this version and the picture quality barely better, but I can’t have been the only one reminded of this scene from Father Ted.

The Nazis didn’t have the PR foresight Communist countries had, what with renaming themselves as “People’s” or “Democratic” compared to their simple “Republic of” opponents. “People’s Democratic National Socialists Party” has a much better ring to it.

Given that Argentina has its own solid homegrown history of violent and repressive fascism that it is trying to come to terms with, is there perhaps legal provision against owning or displaying paraphernalia associated with known hate groups, which would catch these items?