I vaguely recall we’ve had a thread about this in the past but couldn’t find it, so: I gather that smuggling weapons home from wars has been illegal for some time but at least used to happen frequently. How did people pull this off, especially in conditions where you had no privacy and your belongings could be searched at any time. Is it harder to get away with today than it was in WW2 for example?
During WW2 it was fairly commonplace to smuggle home captured weapons. They rarely checked personal gear, and most of the time you could just mail the stuff home. Just because you can be searched doesn’t mean they bothered much.
I don’t think that it was very hard to send war souvenirs home during WWII. I’m basing this on my mom’s collection of jewelry made from the serial number plates of various Japanese materiel (large guns, Betty bombers and the like), along with my father’s Japanese helmet, hand grenade and samurai swords. There didn’t seem to be any limit to what one soldier could take home.
I’m not sure about current limits on souvenirs. I assume that the armed forces frown on the idea.
Hope this isn’t too much of a hijack, but when my uncle passed away, I inherited several Nazi bayonets and daggers, some have detailed symbols (swastikas, eagles, etc.) and I was wondering if there is a way to find out their value. Some are in very good condition, some not so much, but I would like to find out where to take them to get appraised.
Any ideas?
In the Pacific at least, it wasn’t that rare for soldiers to smuggle home Japanese bones (including skulls) :eek:
Yep.
Here is a general order issued by US Central Command (USCENTCOM) in 2006.
From that general order:
I have a Luger p.08 sitting in my lockbox my dad brought home when he shipped back on leave, all he did was tag it with his name, and put it in the ships armory [apparently all arms were checked in during the voyage not just loot] as far as I know, it is totally not registered anywhere [except maybe in the Nazi files somewhere in Germany, when it was issued…]
According to this recent post from Bear_Nenno, who I believe is currently on active duty, for some types of souvenirs such permission is pretty easy to come by - just fill out paperwork:
Firearms are not allowed as souvenirs though.
The book Band of Brothers details quite a bit of looting by the WWII airborne soldiers it covers. Until I had read that, I think I was seriously underestimating how much looting they were doing. Basically they grabbed anything of even the slightest value from both civilians and killed and captured soldiers. Booze, jewelry, weapons, silverware, furniture, even autos were seized and kept or sent back home. The Luger pistol was a particularly sought after item. And I know several people who still have dad’s or granddad’s souvenir Lugers.
Well, they wouldn’t neccessarily steal from random civilians, but abandoned property has pretty much been considered free stuff by soldiers since the dawn of time.
It’s all but impossible. The military searches people at random when they leave the AOR. In all but one instance I had to open my bags, turn them over and dump them completely out so the contents could be inspected. Even if your bag is not inspected it is x-rayed. If you are caught trying to smuggle a functional weapon home you will be arrested and prosecuted. They do offer amnesty boxes before you enter, so if you do have something you have the opportunity to reconsider.
Where I was you had the opportunity to buy non-functional weapons of such an age that they could not easily be reactivated. Also, most of them were replicas and as such could never be fired under any circumstances. Those were easy to get approval for. But a modern weapon? Not a chance.
Now, if you are able to bypass the inspections by, say, flying home on the mission aircraft, it becomes much easier. However, you are still subject to US Customs inspection when you get home, and they do have the right to thoroughly inspect the interior of the aircraft less any classified equipment. That gives some opportunity to hide a bring-back weapon. Bear in mind that by doing so you are committing a federal crime and are subject to both the UCMJ and civilian criminal statutes, especially for automatic weapons.
Only a few people try, and fewer still are successful. The days of bringing home functional war trophies are long gone.
Your best bet is to look for a reputable appraiser lest some schlub tell you they’re not worth anything so he can buy them cheap for himself. The alternative is to look around for similar or identical knives being sold, which will give you a rough value for what you have.
Also, what they are worth is what people are willing to pay, so whatever number you get will not necessarily be its value. All that will give you is a ballpark estimate.
I’m speculating here, but border security was probably a much less rigourous procedure in 1946 than it is now.
But getting permission isn’t that hard. I did it in 3 minutes. See, it says you have to get permission from USCENTCOM, but they delegate to the divisions, who delegate permission to battalions, who authorize company COs to give permission, etc. So by the time it’s actually put into practice, you just need to find an O-3 or up. YMMV, of course.
Hell, I just walked into the company TOC and got in line behind a few other Joes doing the same thing. The commander was just rattling off signatures. Now I’ve got me a bayonet from an Iraqi sniper.
For weapons, it’s all but impossible. And not to mention COMPLETELY NOT WORTH IT. I, for one, didn’t want to risk 10-life over a stupid gadget.
But for non-weapons? Easy as pie, even if it was illegal. Fine china? “I bought it”. Shrapnel? “Oh, how’d THAT get in my boot?” Compass? “Easy with that! My grandfather carried that in WWII!” I know more than a few people who smuggled things in between posters rolled up in tubes that they mailed home.
The rule of thumb for what weapons were OK to take was “No bigger than a bayonet.” That means no bigger in size or lethality.
IIRC were there some guys prosecuted for bringing home Saddam’s gold-plated machine gun?
I notice a lot of people talking about grandpa’s luger, not very many stories about grandpa’s machine gun… Maybe grandpa had better common sense than today’s soldiers?
The fact that silverware that was used for formal banquets by high Nazi officials, probably including Hitler himself, is now in Dick Winters’ house in Pennsylvania fills me with a great sense of satisfaction.
I’m not sure I could eat with a spoon that had been in Hitlers mouth.
Some guy I worked with once told me about his conversation with Hitler. Apparently, if seats were empty in the Berlin Opera a few minutes before showtime, students could get them cheap. He and some friends went to the opera and got prime rush VIP seats. then Adolph and his entourage showed up on short notice and bumped them from their seats.
He says Hitler chatted with them for a few minutes in the corridor. He apologized for making them miss the opera and other small talk. Apparently he was a very polite and charming fellow - just like Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer, I’m sure.
Thank you—I am not looking to sell them, just curious to get an idea of value—a couple of them are striking, beautiful pieces—even (maybe especially) with the swastikas, the Nazi’s made some uber-cool (if sinister looking) looking gear…
My Grandfather brought back and MG-3 from N Africa (British Indian Army). My father has an Indian rifle from Siachin, but the latter was presented to him by his regiment after the end of their tour their (he was CO).
I take it that strictness in this regard in a recent thing and not limited to the US.r
A friend of mine was in the marines in the first gulf war in Iraq. He and a bunch of buddies tried to smuggle a bunch of Iraqi AK-47s back by stuffing them into the tires of a truck that was due to be shipped home. Someone noticed that the tires weren’t rolling right and the weapons got confiscated.
Another technique he said that they would use is that they would stuff things into boxes and label them as jeep parts and such, and would have them shipped back to friends who worked as mechanics in bases in the U.S.