(permission granted by Samclem for this thread - thanks!)
I have two rifles that I found when cleaning out my dad’s house. One is an M1, the other a Japanese rifle (type 99, from Toyo Kogyo).
I initially brought them to my local police for disposal, but was told their amnesty program was over, and they wouldn’t be accepted. An officer told me outside that I should try to sell them, since they are collectable.
Sorry, long-winded intro. I have no idea how to sell these! The officer said I had to go outside NYC to do this. I looked online, and saw many gun auction sites. Has anyone here sold a gun this way before?
I don’t want to do anything illegal, and I don’t have any paperwork on these guns.
I’d appreciate any advice/anecdotes/experiences you might have had.
Either way, I’d might be interested. Basically, the buyer sends you money (PayPal will freeze your account if you try to use them for a gun – if they find out) and you ship the gun by UPS or FedEx(?) to a licensed dealer. I’ve bought guns from Gunbroker and had them shipped to a guy with a Federal Firearms License. No hitches.
And if you were just going to turn them in under the amnesty program anyway…
I am far from an expert, but I know that in most states, any private citizen (as opposed to a firearms dealer) needs no permits (or other documentation of any kind) to sell guns to another private party.
I think that is the crux of the so called “gun-show loophole” that you hear about from time to time.
That said, I understand that NY has some fairly restrictive gun laws, so take what I say with a grain of salt…
Also, they may well be valuable so be sure you get a fair price for them, and don’t just give them away for a pittance if they are indeed collectors items.
Thank God the police didn’t take them. If those rifles are in any sort of good condition they’re fairly valuable.
There are a few ways to sell them. One, you consign them to a gun shop. He’ll sell them for you, take a cut of the proceeds, and you’re free of them. Two, you sell them face-to-face to somebody in New York State. Since they are longarms you can do that without any paperwork. Last, you can sell them to someone in another state. If you do that you must ship them from an FFL holder to the FFL holder of the purchaser’s choice.
If you do this last one, keep in mind that it’s just like eBay, with all the same risks of non-payment/fraud/etc., except that you have recourse because a state-to-state transfer leaves a paper trail.
I’ve never sold a weapon, but I have bought face-to-face and state-to-state. For the face-to-face purchase it was necessary to go through the NICS check because it was a handgun, but honestly I would have insisted upon it anyway, just as you have the right to demand it as a condition of sale in order to protect yourself. That’s your call if you do it that way.
Last, longarms are not required to be registered in any state in the United States, except for the few states that require it for so-called “assault weapons”, of which these two are neither. Therefore, your lack of paperwork is not an obstacle to the ultimate sale of the weapons.
Please do not destroy these weapons. They will not likely be used in a crime, and they are historically valuable. Find a home for them. Like mine! I already have a Garand and a Carbine, and am always open to another, especially that Arisaka. WWII era weapons are fascinating.
No harm, no foul, guys. But I"m closing this for the night. I’ll reopen it tomorrow, after consulting with a buddy who is more into this than I. Wallet and others—no big problem, I just need to get some advice from a friend who is an expert on this.
You may also want to check out the Axis Forums. They have a section “for sale” that may help you with this. At least you should be able to get some idea of their worth, even if you sell them somewhere else.
The M1’s value can vary quite a bit, depending on when it was made, what condition it is in, whether or not anyone has tinkered with it, etc. You should take it to someone who knows how to price it and get it appraised. They’ll charge you a small fee but it’s worth it.
Japanese Type 99 rifles also vary quite a bit in price. There are three basic types, a training rifle, a “surrender rifle” and a battlefield pick-up rifle.
The training rifle doesn’t have any markings on it, and never did. These were used for training and only fired blanks, and may actually be dangerous to use with a live round. They aren’t worth much at all.
If it wasn’t a training rifle, then it was manufactured with the Imperial Crest on it (a chrysanthemum). When the Japanese surrendered, they filed off the crests so that they would not shame the Emperor when the rifles were surrendered. These so called “surrender rifles” are fairly common and aren’t worth a whole lot.
If the chrysanthemum wasn’t filed off, then it is assumed that the rifle was picked up off of the battlefield (and wasn’t surrendered) and it is worth more. The oldest type 99’s, if they still have their chrysanthemum and all original parts, are very hard to find and are worth a bit of money.
The value will be significantly decreased if the rifle was bored out for an American caliber.
You’ve got some genuine collectors pieces on your hands, especially if they’re in decent condition. Even if they’re not, do not restore, clean or alter the gun in any way. if the guneeds to be cleaned, or refinished, it won’t adversely effect the value, but of you do it incorrectly, and scotch the bluing or remove finish accidentally, you could be altering the originality of the firearm (firearms, like cars, a more valuable with matching numbers and original).
You may travel with the firearms, legally, to any state (with minor restrictions) to get them appraised under the 1986 FOPA (Firearms Owners Proection Act) as long as theyre safely stored during transit.
Like many others, I’d be glad to take them off your hands, but know that they’re worth something, as collectors pieces and as working firearms. Please don’t destroy them. If you were going to, please contact me and i will drive, in person, to pick them up from you.
We can even make the transfer through a licensed dealer (as required by federal law, you can only sell a firearm to a resident of your state without the form 4443, i believe), and I’d arrange it.
And, thanks to everyone else for your help. I really had no idea they were collector’s items - not to go into personal reasons, but I’m just trying to empty out my dad’s house, bad memories and all.
The Japanese rifle is a “pick-up” rifle - because of this thread I purchased a book from Amazon, which has a lot of information. It seems this is a Type 99, series 32 rifle manufactured by (in?) Toyo Kogyo, #91380. The chrysanthemum mark is still there, and I doubt the rifle was ever altered or cleaned. There is a bayonet, but I don’t know if it goes to this rifle.
The American rifle has printed:
U.S. Rifle
Cal. 30 M1
Springfield
Armory
5409372
and under the stock there’s a letter P inside a circle on the wood
oh, just noticed more #s stamped on metal on the side:
SA F 6535484 11 54 A2168 (hmm, maybe not WWII - does 11 54 mean the year?)
I guess I’m glad the police didn’t want these guns!
Oh, it’s worth something! ‘How much?’ is the question. I’m currently searching gunbroker’s auctions that have finished in the last 30 days for Springfield M1 Garands. I found one that has excellent metal. Not ‘like new’, but definitely ‘excellent’. The stock needs to be cleaned. It went for $950. There’s a Springfield National Match Garand that appears in ‘like new’ condition that sold for $930. There’s a guy asking about $1,200 for ‘like new’ Garands – and they do look like they just came from the factory. They aren’t selling, though. In fact, most of offerings aren’t selling.
I think part of the issue is that there were a lot of re-imported Garands that were sold through Big 5 not that long ago, and ISTR Turner’s having them when I was still in L.A. The availability seems to be holding prices down. But your gun isn’t worthless! Not by a… erm… ‘long shot’. I’ve always wanted one, and if you email me some photos maybe we can agree on a price.
As for keeping it with the Japanese rifle, that’s not unusual. I have my M1 Carbines, AR-15s, 113-year-old Winchester 1892, Mini-14, and the rest mostly together.
There’s a WWII bring-back that did sell for $1,775. (Too rich for my blood!) And there’s a Collectors Grade one with documentation of Authenticity and an armorer’s report that went for $1,699. A commercial Garand made by Springfield Armory (which I think may be different from the Springfield Armory that made yours) in the 1980s had a Buy It Now price of $1,095 but actually sold for $1,525. I have a feeling that since Springfield Armory makes new Garands, people may want those instead of surplus ones.
In any case, here’s the search page, which may or may not work when linked from here. If it doesn’t, search on Completed auctions and sort by price.
