No. No, he hasn’t. That’s coming up. Not when he dies, no. When all this ends… that’s when he’s going to be in his own personal hell. Because it’ll be all his fault.
I need brain bleach! Barama indeed!
Sorry, I may not be voting for him, but I don’t feel a need to have a deep burning hatred towards him. Nor am I required to discount every reasonably decent thing he does, or be eternally “afraid” of a McCain presidency. Because, you know, I’m not.
You assume too much about everyone who’s voting for Obama. I’m a pretty big fan of the guy but I am not, and never will be a Democrat. I had my fill after I worked for them in 2000. Obama has many such supporters and it’s not unreasonable for them to be more moderate in their views towards the Republicans.
I’ll admit my emotions towards Palin are stronger (entirely because of her views) but at this point I’m fairly burnt out on her.
I wish we had enough to money to make this into a commercial. Yeah, it’d probably upset some people, but you know what, fuck 'em.
I’ve never seen any evidence that John McCain is anything other than exactly what he appears to be now–a petty, vindictive, win-at-all-costs, douchenozzle. How many times does he have to behave a certain way before people hold him responsible for his own actions? He wasn’t co-opted by the GOP–these people are his friends and associates. His ideological equals. His peers. He wasn’t thrown on the crazy bus against his will. He hand-picked the people in his campaign, selected them for their virtues, because they would help him win, because he doesn’t give a fuck who he hurts on his way to the top. He was push polling in South Carolina in 2000, too. He embraced George W. Bush, literally and figuratively. Those “agents of intolerance”? They appear to be his best friends.
I’m tired of everybody pretending McCain is some sort of puppet, dancing to the tune of the Rovian masters in the background. He’s not. He’s too headstrong, too powerful, too spoiled, and too used to having his own way to be anybody’s puppet. Whether he made a deal with the devil, or if he was always in league with the dark forces, it was his decision and these are his actions.
I don’t know who will win, but I think McCain’s chances are much better than most here think. Y’all are placing way too much faith in the polls. Remember, Obama was spanking Hillary the day of the New Hampshire primary, in most cases by 7 to 10 points, and IMHO the current polls could be even more whacked out. Sites like 538 do not account for the possibility of systematic errors in polling methodologies, so their outcome probabilities are likely skewed.
Barack might win it in a landslide, but I won’t be surprised if McCain squeaks it out come Nov 5.
McCain is a fine man, I’d honestly be willing to bet McCain and Obama don’t have much of an issue with one another on a personal level. Something weird about politics, especially at the highest levels, is people on opposite sides of the aisle have to maintain a public “face” but in private pretty much everyone in the Senate considers all the other Senators a colleague that they are mostly on pretty good terms with at a personal level. Since they are all there to represent the interests of their constituents and their party, that means they still butt heads all the time with Senators whose constituents and party want their interests expressed in a contradictory manner.
I don’t feel sorry for McCain. Bush is the least popular President in modern American history. The GOP has fucked up. To be honest I hold my own part in contempt, Bush–not nearly as much. The legislative branch is supposed to be an equal part of government and a lot of the GOP congressional members forgot that from 2000-2006.
The reason I feel the GOP congress was so successful during Clinton’s era is in large part because they were willing to assert themselves since Clinton was a member of the opposition. When Bush came into power we essentially transitioned to a rubber stamp government for six years. As a very conservative Republican, I still support the decision to go into Iraq and Afghanistan.
What I can’t get behind is the complete abandonment of our party’s traditional stance on fiscal responsibility. Something Bush gets some blame for is he sort of recreated the party in order to win election 2x, and in the process gave a lot more power and influence to certain right-wing groups that are one or two issue voters and really don’t contribute much to the good of the country one way or another.
I don’t feel sorry for McCain because no one forced him to run for President. He’s a smart man, he knew before he was ever nominated that no matter who the Dems picked, it was going to be an uphill battle. Several of my conservative friends have actually said, “We think McCain is a great candidate, much better than Bush. But the Republicans have disappointed us time and time again over the past eight years, so we’re not going to vote for McCain because we don’t believe we can reward our party for miserable performance.” I’m almost to the point of being on that boat. I’d never vote for Obama, and I have nothing against McCain (and think he’d be a great President) but I do feel the GOP needs to be punished harshly by the voters if we’re ever to take our party back from the crony capitalists and Christian fundamentalists.
McCain decided to throw a bunch of hail mary passes in his attempt to beat Obama, because he knew going in that his chances to win were very small. A few of them worked, a few of them only worked temporarily. Ultimately they weren’t enough to win, and they sort of made McCain look like someone he isn’t. But, meh, he pulled out all the stops to win. He could have picked someone like Mitt Romney as his VP and ran his campaign limiting himself to the issues that are near and dear to him. He wouldn’t have embarrassed himself but he would have lost and lost probably about as bad as he’s going to lose now. McCain instead tried to energize people on the right with some long-shot ploys that ultimately didn’t pan out. In the process, yeah he has made himself look kind of nutty–but I don’t feel sorry for him because McCain knew exactly what he was doing and knew it could easily blow up in his face. I actually admire him for trying some of the stuff he did because a lot of people in his situation would have basically just campaigned on auto pilot, recognizing they were essentially a repeat version of Bob Dole (a generally unobjectionable guy who got nominated because of his long history of service to his country and who never had a shot at winning.)
Well, if Johnny Mac does go to Hell, he’s going to wish he hadn’t switched from Episcopalian to Baptist. Episcopalian Hell, the Club has only a second-rate chef, and the wine list is mediocre. Baptists are a lot more serious about this shit.
He should have just taken the one step down and been a Methodist.
Look, I know Obama is well ahead in the polls. I think he’s going to win too. But can we please stop popping champagne corks already? Gore was leading in the polls right before the 2000 election too. Let’s stay focused on the election here.
Here’s the commercial I’d like to see right now.
VOICEOVER: Sarah Palin asked…
PALIN: Who IS Barack Obama?
VOICEOVER: And John McCain answered…
MCCAIN: He’s a good and decent family man.
OBAMA’S VOICE: I’m Barack Obama, and I approve this message.
“The polls might be completely and utterly wrong!!!” is a pretty damn poor argument. If you think there are systematic problems with polls, come up with some.
You seem to think 538 should add a random variable called “Chance the polls are totally fucked in McCain’s favor”. 'course if they did that they’d have to add another one called “Chance the polls are totally fucked in Obama’s favor”. And since both numbers would be completely made up, they may as well be the same!
Fucking
Brilliant
Love it! SCORE!!
This election isn’t at all like 2000 or 2004. Electoral-vote.com doesn’t have 2000’s polls online, but they do have 2004’s. At this time in 2004, Kerry was up with 280 EVs total, but only 203 in the weak and strong categories. Right now Obama has 343 EVs, with 235 just in the strong category. All Bush had to do at this point in '04 was to nudge Ohio back into his column and not lose Virginia and Missouri. What McCain needs to do now is defend North Carolina and Indiana while gaining all the tied and barely Dem states (Missouri, Ohio, Florida, Colorado, Nevada) and then scrounge up 13 additional EVs in states where he’s down by five or more points.
And that’s just going by polling data. Fivethirtyeight.com’s analysis, based on trendlines and projections is a bit more favorable to Obama. And that’s not even counting the Obama campaign’s advantage (which seems nearly unanimously agreed on) in organization.
And I can’t see any reason, other than racism, that would indicate that McCain’s support is underrepresented in the polls, while Obama’s ability to perform better than pre-election polling has pretty much been confirmed in the primaries. McCain needs a big game-changer to pull off a win, and I haven’t seen any indication that his campaign operation has it in them. They’re playing by the Rove playbook, while Obama’s campaign seems to have written their own, rather than using whatever the Democrats had in 2000 and 2004.
This is the top reason I’m happy that Obama beat Clinton in the primary. Clinton seemed to be trying to redo what the Democrats did in 1992 and 1996, while Obama went and figured out how to win in 2008, taking a big clue from the 2006 midterms. The Republicans might not have been able to beat Bill Clinton at the time, but they’ve certainly had time to study it and come up with ideas. In 2012 (if they’re quicker learners than I’m actually willing to believe) we’ll see what they come up to in response to their crushing defeat in '08.
So, maybe I’m celebrating early, but I’ve held back for a good long while, and I can’t see any reason to hold back at this point.
I agree popping champagne corks is premature, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense than the wailing and gnashing of teeth in which some self-mortifying Dems seem determined to engage.
If this is what the the alternative looks like, bleed away oh liberal heart of mine. I have no problem opposing someone without demonizing and dehumanizing him. And if reading makes you nauseous, maybe you should give yourself a break.
Actually, yes they do.
Fivethirtyeight weighs each of the polls on their methodologies, then bases its projections based on how they are weighted. It also plainly shows the sample size and the margin of error.
Fivethirtyeight actually had a pretty good record during the primaries.
Aha! John McCain just released an official statement condemning “shocking and beyond the pale,” “outrageous and divisive comments”!
Aw, crap.
I’m a bleeding heart liberal too, but we tend to be too soft of people who would love to turn around and slit our throats with razors if they could. I have no trouble “demonizing” McCain because he IS disgusting. What he did to his first wife is enough to make me want to spit on him. He sucked Bush’s dick for political gain. Or, for a much more articulate and intelligent take, read Rubystreak and pepperlandgirl’s posts in this thread. What they said. People think far too highly of McCain*, feeling “sorry” for him the second he pulls another flip-flop out of his hat, and I’m sick of it. Obviously I have to put up with it but I can bitch about it, can’t I?
No, I can’t do that. Believe me, I’ve tried. I tried to stay out of politics this year, I really did. I couldn’t do it. It’s far too entertaining. No, I don’t believe for a second that McCain will lose (though I do realize that it’s just me, The Tooth, and dozens of millions of other people who think that McCain will win), so it’s frustrating, but the entertainment factor is still there.
Polls. Jesus. Poll numbers change from day to day based on what side of the bed people got up on that morning. Polls lie, because people lie. There’s a damn thread right here on the Dope where people are chortling about how they lie to pollsters. No, I don’t trust polls one bit.
Maybe the people who think Obama will win will be right. KT knows I hope so, but I refuse to get my hopes up, especially when so many liberals are feeling “sorry” for McCain. They’re not going to vote for him because of it, but millions of people might. Coupled with the perception that McCain is a “safe” choice (far more qualified than either Bush or Obama), racism, election day being on a Tuesday, and about a hundred other reasons, is why I fear an Obama loss. Oh I’d love to be wrong. But if I’m right, a lot of liberals are in for a rude awakening the day after election day.
I’m going to the movies, to put me in a better mood.
*and Colin Powell for that matter. Oh yeah, the guy who tried to cover up the Mi Lai Massacre, and helped get us into Iraq II, Electric Boogaloo? Yeah, that guy. Fuck him too.
You know who I feel sorry for at this point? Not McCain. Secret Service. Thanks to him and Palin, they’re working overtime, most likely, dealing with threats-we know of at least one against Obama. These fucksticks are out there, inciting lunatics, and hope the Service is ripping them both several new assholes.