Armenian Massacre

Those of you who follow world news probably remember the “verdict” of the French Parliament last month. Officially accepting “The Armenien Massacre” of 1917 as an historical fact.

The claim is that during WWI, the Turks have slain about 2.2 million Armenian civilians, taking advantage of the combats taking place in Russia.

I have no links to disprove this fact at the moment - I can find some if I am challenged - but there are several points I feel compelled to object to:

  1. The official records claim the Armenian Population in Eastern Anatolia at the time was about 1.5 million, rendering it completely impossible for any living creature to kill 2.2 million Armenians.

  2. There was a major war going on atr the time, and the Armenians livin there wanted to form a country of their own, so they started an uprising which wasnt accepted peacefully by te Turkish potpulation living on the exact same land, and the outcome was the death of a couple of millions - OF BOTH RACES! A war, yes ; but a massacre WTF???

  3. There is still an Armenian minority living in Turkey, and we can get along very well! No Turkish citizen of Armenian origin needs to hide his/her identity, no obstacles in any Armenian to practice his/her religion and/or traditions. No obstacle against any Armenian being very succesful in the business or the intellectual environments in the country. No hostility between the Turks and the Armenians living in Turkey. So, WHO THE FUCK DO THE SEVERAL HUNDRED MEMBERS OF THE FRENCH PARLIAMENT THINK THEY ARE, TO GIVE THEMSELVES THE RIGHT TO TRY TO OFFICIALLY ALTER HISTORY?

Hey, it could be worse… they could have officially decided that the Moon landings were a hoax.

Do I sense another “Why do people hate the French?” thread coming on?


Watermelon Man please cite source which referred to the 2.2 million figure. Sources I’ve seen online say only 1.5 million, including this page about the French parliamentary decisions.

This site paints a grim picture: more of mass murder than reaction to an uprising.

With all due respect to factual citations…I will do my own research and back up my view with cites of my own…
Thanks for the effort.


I dont hate the French.

Maybe I do resent some politicians, but several hundred jerks cannot represent a nation can they?

I had an Armenian roommate for a while. The Armenians feels VERY strongly about this. The French Parliament is not taking it upon themselves to rewrite history – this is something that Armenians have been agitating about ever since 1917. They think of it as the forgotten genocide. There are a number of books out about this, but I admit I haven’t read any of them.

Watermelon Man: You DO realize that your third point doesn’t prove anything, right? The fact that Jews can live in safety in present-day Germany or Poland isn’t a refutation of the Holocaust. The fact that the U.S. Army doesn’t go around killing Native Americans and that Native Americans can live and travel where they please in the U.S. doesn’t mean the “Indian Wars” of the 19th Century and the forcible removal to reservations didn’t happen.

Anyhow, there’s no need to get touchy about it in this year 2001. I don’t think that a statement that the Ottoman Empire massacred Armenians in the 1910s is intended to be an argument that the government of Turkey (not the same thing) is oppressing Armenians now. The French are making this statement precisely because there are people arguing that it never happened, period, in any form, to any degree. They’re doing it to straighten out history, not blame an existing government and nation.

Didn’t Hitler say something along the lines of “Who remembers the Armenian Massacre nowadays?” when asked if killing all the Jews would ever come back to bite himself and Nazi Germany on the ass later? (Perhaps that’s an urban legend.)

O.K. John Bredin I get your point.

THere is a reason why I posted this here instead of the Pit as well. For one I am not an expert of WWI history, there are a lot of things I am supposed to learn, too.

Also, if it is actually proven htat it was a massacre, not a war, I personally have no reason to feel guilty about something that happened 85 years ago. Whatever hapened took place within the context of the time and place.

My countrie’s administration is also guilty in one aspect: Whatever actual documentation there is of what hapened there at the time is probably in the Ottoman archives that are still locked up somewhere in Istanbul, and the Turkish State has offered to open those archives for research several times in recent history, but nothing has been done about it - and its not the fault of historians who do not bother to come and do the research. It is the fault of the administration in not bringing their shit together to work on the subject of organizing the ottoman archive, cleaning the dust and cobwebs on the documents and taking some positive action on the matter. And my sincere belief is that this is not done NOT because of a feeling of apprehension that the genocide claims might be correct,
but the guys responsible for the action are not taking their job seriously enough - which is nothing to brag about either!
Once that is done ,final light will be shed on the darkness of the issue, and the correct action will be taken. But a Parliamentary vote in Paris has no historical significance. It is merely a bow to French voters of Armenian origin, and I don’t see it as an extremely respectable action.

That explains the rant in the OP. I don’t want to sound like a nationalistic jerk - I am not one. But as yet, after listening to long debates defending the views on both sides, I have no reason to believe there was a one sided massacre at the time.

BTW, please note that I am not buying our official claim that there was no killing of Armenians, period.

Watermelon Man, you’ll find that France is far from alone in condemning the Armenian genocide. Many other countries have recognized the Turkish role in this atrocity. The essential facts are not in serious dispute .

The major problem today is that the Turkish government (and many private citizens) continue to deny their nation’s complicity and have put political and economic pressure on the U.S. Congress and historians in this and other countries in support of false, revisionist views of the tragedy. I’ve seen this blind spot affecting otherwise educated Turks.

I don’t think your country will be able to shed its burden until the facts are fully acknowledged.

Here’s a little more on the subject to mull over.

Do some research, there is a great deal of corroborated material on this matter.

Just about the only ones who make serious attempts to deny this are the Turks themselves who take great pains to ensure that pressure is brought to bear on any authoratative source that raises these matters.

Unfortunately as far as much of Europe is concerned, there is much greater need to embrace Turkey and bring in into a more modern Europe because of its strategic political and geographicla position so no one wants to confront the issue too hard, it seems to me at any rate.