I’m not much of a fashionista, but there are a number of concealment options available for women (I’d link to them, but they’re sometimes close enough to NSFW that I don’t think it’s a good idea). They may not meet your particular style preference, but I’d leave it up to them to figure it out.
There are some cops in that category too. I don’t think there’s such a thing as a perfect solution with zero risks or downsides.
Sure, and then the history teacher will just pull the gun out and kill a 14 year old.
Has a CCW teacher done that yet?
Is there still any substantive disagreement that this is a really not a good idea? If so, is there any remaining value in exploring the psychology of those who think it is?
44% of Americans support the idea. If you can spin that into there no longer being any substantive disagreement, you’d be a better spinmeister than most.
I did miss that. My apologies.
Hey, come on, now. This is a family thread.
Well, on that little we agree. I still don’t see how a student killed by another student with their teacher’s gun is any less dead than one killed by a student who brought their own gun. Isn’t the goal here to reduce the number of students shot? If your only goal is to protect guns over kids, we’re going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
And that will grow, first time it works. That a teacher armed with a pistol prevails over a maniac with an automatic weapon. You think that likely?
Seems from here that the madman has a clear tactical advantage. For instance, the long gun can easily take out a target at fifty yards or more. The pistol, not so much. Stealth, perhaps? What would be the plan?
And if it doesn’t work, as it most likely will not?
This is similar to the comments made by Tom Fuentes, retired Assistant Director of the FBI, while on CNN while mansplaining carry options. Here’s the response from A Girl and a Gun:
Or from Cornered Cat:
Women can carry just fine it seems.
I don’t think “student steals teacher’s gun and shoots a bunch of people” is a significant concern, just like I’m not overly-worried about school shooters taking the school resource officer’s gun, or at least not worried enough to suggest we disarm them. As I’ve noted previously, the firearm they might procure from a CCW teacher is not generally going to be the best choice for a particularly effective school shooting, and the mechanics involved in procuring it present considerable risk to the student that tries.
“automatic weapon”? :dubious:
I certainly think it’s possible that in a pistol vs rifle gunfight, the pistol side wins. It happens often enough out there in the wild that I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that a pistol-armed CCW teacher has a fighting chance against a rifle-armed school shooter.
My recommendation (which no one is under any particular obligation to adhere to) would be for teachers to shelter in place with their students, and if the school shooter enters the classroom, engage him. At typical distances one might find within a classroom, a pistol is plenty-capable of disabling an attacker.
I disagree with “most likely will not”, but if it doesn’t work, we’re back to where we were before, with a bunch of people in a classroom getting shot at by a maniac.
Which the NRA believes is a completely acceptable price for freedom.
No, and that’s my point. In almost every case the history teacher won’t shoot the 14-year old.
Btw, the child isn’t a “shooter”, the child is a pupil the teacher will have known perhaps for years. Who they understand, and have knowledge of that child’s complicated life.
In almost ever case the history teacher will try and talk the child out of the action contemplated, they will often succeed. And when they don’t they will rather die than face living with having shot a troubled 14 year old.
How do I know that? Because it is the rational action of a compassionate human being.
If the action is still in the “contemplated” phase, there’s definitely a chance for caring teachers and others to intervene and prevent a tragedy. That would be the best outcome. If it’s already in the “shooting” phase, I don’t think a teacher is going to have much chance for dialog with the shooter. That’s the point at which a gun of one’s own might come in handy, not while there is still a chance to “talk the child out of the action contemplated”.
I sometimes can’t help but think some people need a little more real world in their lives. The president included.
Maybe you should. Per the FBI, of the 616 law enforcement officers killed on duty by criminals from 1994 through 2003, 52 were killed with their own weapon, amounting to about 8 percent. Why are you assuming that teachers will manage to secure their weapons better than trained law enforcement officers?
Have you ever taken a gun from someone pointing one at you? A Yes or no answer only please. You see, I have. I’m not arguing some crazy hypothetical, this is my real life experience disagreeing with you. And it’s not just my experience. My local RCMP attachment has a standing order that officers do not bring weapons into interrogation rooms or holding areas due to the risk that it involves. Prisons use the same rules. Why do you think this is?
What this, an invitation to dance the semantic dance? Carrying the charming presumption that if your ballistic vocabulary is better, then your argument must be better as well? Call it “Fred” if you like. The pertinent question is whether or not the injuries caused by Fred are more likely lethal than by Glocky. A pistol shot pokes a hole in flesh, a high-velocity round, hamburger jello. As befits a military designed weapon, where the target is not Bambi’s Mom, but an armed enemy combatant.
Didn’t ask “possible”, asked “likely”. You dodged.
It is entirely “possible” that betting all your money that you can draw one card to an inside straight flush will work out well for you. But not “likely”.
Aw, c’mon. I KNEW and know these people well. We worked together, socialized together, talked a lot about all sorts of issues. They were not packing. Furthermore, had any of them been packing and the admin found out, they would have had a very unpleasant meeting with the administration because–and I know this is hard to believe–the thinking even before gun-free schools was that CCW permits notwithstanding, GUNS DON’T BELONG IN SCHOOLS. And who was thinking that? Administrators who hunted and enjoyed a Saturday afternoon at the shooting range. Teachers who brought in photos of the 5-point they bagged over the weekend. Staff who proposed with utmost sincerity that the opening day of hunting season should be a school holiday. Would someone with a CCW permit who was found carrying at school been fired? Maybe not initially, but believe me, his judgment would have been called into question, and I doubt they’d have wanted him around. Very thin ice, indeed.