Arnold Schoenberg fans--unite!

Cafe Society
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This may sound werid, but Arnold Schoenberg is totally my hero. For many years now I’ve wanted a big picture of Arnold to put on my wall. A nice photograph. There are few people whose art I admire more.

In case you’ve never heard of the man, he’s a classical composer. His music from the late 19th century was tonal but still blazingly original. Then, in the 20th century, he pretty much invented atonal music. What’s beyond dispute is that he invented the 12-tone method of composition, in which every tone of the Western scale must be used before it is repeated.

I was a cello and oboe player early in my life. This introduced me to classical music, and I was a total classical snob from age 10 or so until age 12. It was during this time that I checked out those nice Time/Life or whoever “Great Composer” or whatever boxed sets at the library. I heard that there was this “weird” composer called Schoenberg, checked out his set, and my life has never been the same since. Yes, I was an 11-year-old Schoenberg fan.

I love blues, country, rock, rap, and just about any type of music. I love George Clinton, Bootsy Collins–I love funk. But the thing is, Schoenberg is just as funky as Collins–no, it’s true!

Listen to the 3rd string quartet. How about the slow movement, how it breaks into that fast and funky pizzacato partway through? If that isn’t funk, then neither is The Mothership Connection. If you ask me, “Pierrot Lunaire” was the original funk masterpiece.

How about the “Wind Quintet”? That’s a badass piece of music! Recently we were unpackaing the boxes in our apartment that had been sitting in my mom’s basement for two years. Getting the wind quintet on the turntable made me finally feel at home.

But it’s also true that a lot of people don’t like Schoenberg. They say his music sounds like noise. It’s true that it takes a little bit of getting used to (not me, though! I loved it at first hearing). Once you train your ear, however, the melodies that Schoenberg created come to life–they are more sophisticated than just about anything else ever created. My goodness, just listen to the piano concerto and the violin concerto. Stupendous!

Schoenberg was also a great teacher and helped two other great composers to greatness: Alban Berg and Anton Webern. The interesting thing about these two is the unique character they bring to 12-tone composition. Their pieces really don’t sound anything like Schoenberg’s. It’s no coincidence that these composers are also in my top three. Yep, the Vienna Troika.

Pop Webern’s Symphony into the CD player. Amazing!

Berg’s Wozzeck is the greatest opera ever written.

So, you’d like to know my favorite composers. OK!

  1. Schoenberg
  2. Berg/Webern
  3. Prokofiev (string quartets!)
  4. Bartok
  5. Ravel
  6. Debussy
  7. Bocherini
  8. Beethoven
  9. Schubert
  10. Mozart
  11. Brahms
  12. Grieg

The order there is a little fuzzy after Berg/Webern. At any rate, please tell us your story of how you fell in love with Schoenberg and his great music!

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Hooray!
I’m a classical musician and it’s great to see that people actuallly LISTEN to this stuff and it does gain some piece of the public consciousness.
I too am an admirer of Schönberg. I respond even more to the works of his pupils, Webern and Berg. Webern’s spindly sparse textures (particularly the works for st qt) always make me hold my breath in a kind of hypnotic wonder. That something can be so sparse and so powerful emotionally is an incredible achievement. It’s as though every note, through the sparseness of the texture achieves a kind of hyper-expressiveness, now concentrated, glimmering isotope of its former self. The whole thing is so emotional, yet so stoic all at once. Sheesh. Don’t get me started, I’ll never stop.

But this was supposed to be a place to sing the praises of Schönberg, right?

So…Yes, he’s a definite heavyweight

I have often thought that Schönberg’s “A Survivor from Warsaw” would be a good into piece for a new listener- short, gripping, picturesque, and downright harrowing. Shorter than Pierrot, and a little easier to relate to in subject matter. I love PL too, though. Powerful, otherwordly stuff. People think it’s just weird and ugly. And it IS weird and ugly in many spots. But it is also beautiful, evocative, and sometimes nearly lyrical. All seen through this new filter, of course. Superbly crafted, as well. From the instrumentation, form, everything- it’s a very “perfect” work, in some sense, all that numeric symbolism, etc.

Don’t expect a landslide of replies here, though. Last I checked there were exactly ZERO replies to what should be a thriving string of replies. Why? Because we live in a culturally brain dead world culture. THERE. I said it. I moved to Europe from the US thinking there would be more “culture” here. There really is no difference in the “cultural literacy” between the US and Europe. Sadly. But that, clearly, is a whole new post. Sorry bout that.

All I’m saying is- Schönberg can’t deliver in less than 30 seconds, and doesn’t really resonate with girls in bikinis, etc. So I would not hold my breath for a flood of responses.
Three Ole’s to The Second Viennesse School though!!!

-Shingolicious

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Well, your post was worth a whole thread’s worth–thank you! What’s your instrument, by the way? Sometimes I wish I hadn’t quit oboe. It really is a great ol’ horn.

All the time, actually. I have a bunch of records that I need to catch up on, too. I have “Warsaw” somewhere but haven’t listened yet. I really need to check out “Moses und Aaron,” too–haven’t listened to that in years. Etc. etc.

I love 'em all, yeah.

He’s truly a great composer. He astounded his teacher many times. Have you heard Webern’s early st qt stuff, like Langsamer (sp)? Man, he outromantics the Romantics. Then, in just a year or so, so damn advanced. Many imitators, no equals for his particular type of music. Totally different than Berg and Schoenberg, too.

Speaking of Berg, his string quartet is also one of my all-time favorites. Put that on in the car–great driving music.
[quoe]I love PL too, though. Powerful, otherwordly stuff. People think it’s just weird and ugly. And it IS weird and ugly in many spots. But it is also beautiful, evocative, and sometimes nearly lyrical. All seen through this new filter, of course. Superbly crafted, as well. From the instrumentation, form, everything- it’s a very “perfect” work, in some sense, all that numeric symbolism, etc.
[/quote]
Yeah. 92 years later, it still freaks people. Some say that that’s because modern music pretty much froze sometimes in the 1940s (people stopped digesting new trends), and I think that’s a factor. But it’s just a damn powerful piece with a lot to say. It blew my 11-year-old brain and it still does.

Where are you from? Your English is perfect.

I don’t know what to say to this point, as I like plenty of pop culture too. I love country music. I love the blues. I do agree that people should explore more. Most people just take what’s given.

People mock what they don’t understand. It’s a basic flaw in human cognition.

Thanks again for the great post!

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I wish I knew more of Schoenberg to craft a suitable reply… but my tastes tend more to the Romantic than later-20th Century. I ran a series of classical music threads a few months ago but didn’t get many replies. The 'Dope is a great source for people who are interested in anything and everything, but the more focused your thread topic, the fewer people are going to know about it. I have yet to find a good classical music-oriented discussion group.

That said, I have heard some of Schoenberg’s work on arrangements and orchestration. I think he made some arrangements of Strauss waltzes for chamber players. He also orchestrated Bach’s Prelude & Fugue in E-Flat, and in both cases, the style is distinctively his.

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Checking in to this thread a little late, because I just saw it mentioned in this debate thread about Schoenberg. Anyway, yes - there is a disc available of transcribed Strauss waltzes played by the Boston Chamber Players that is AMAZING. There are two arranged by A.S. and then one each by Berg and Webern. Also on the disc is some Stravinsky chamber music. Stunning playing.

The transcrition of the Bach St. Anne prelude & fugue is available on a wonderfully-played disc by the LA Philharmonic. That disc is also worth having for Mahler’s gorgeous arrangement of movements from Bach’s 2nd and 3rd orchestral suites.

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Oh my goodness.

I never thought I’d see this name anywhere.

Schoenberg’s son Lawrence was my Geometry/Computer Programming teacher in high school.

I saw him about a year and a half ago and went out to dinner with him. It was a wonderful evening catching up with my favorite teacher after 25+ years. Larry is retired from teaching now and is the trustee of his father’s estate and music - he recently moved the Schoenberg Collection from UCLA to Vienna.

And yes, he’d play his dad’s music in his classroom. Although I’m not a true classical music aficionado, I enjoyed what I heard. Complex, beautiful, and brilliant.

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Great post!

Did he say anything about what his dad was like, etc.? I’m really curious!

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No, not at all. It was just sort of a matter of fact thing, first day of classes, he’d say something like: “Hi, I’m Mr. Schoenberg, and if you’ve heard that my father was famous, well, yes, he was a classical music composer. But we’re here to learn geometry, so let’s get down to it…”

We were 15-18 years old. It wasn’t that big of a deal to us.

And at our dinner, it was more catching up over the years.

Sorry I can’t give you any more, except that Lawrence is a great man. I’m proud to say that I know him.

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And one other thing - I misspoke.

He pulled the collection from USC, not UCLA. It’s now in Vienna.

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I have this recording, which I believe is worth having for the transcriptions by Holst, Elgar, Respighi, Vaughan-Williams, and of course, Schoernberg.

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:eek: I’ve never seen that disc! Now I’m dying to hear that Honneger transcription.

av8rmike, I’m going to be spending money and I’m holding you responsible!

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Thanks for your warm reply! I was a tad acidic there, re-reading…about the english, I’m an American living in Denmark. I am a clarinetist btw. So the English thing is no feat. All are welcomed and encouraged to check out, read, listen, etc at www.ensemblenordlys.dk I’m the one who looks like Genghis Kahn. Holding a clarinet. If anyone wishes to contact us, please do so at the addresses on the website. That esp goes for you, Aeschines!

I am not familiar with the Berg quartet, but will put it on my long list of things to get acquainted with. And, yes, the early works of the SVS (2nd Vn Sch) can be gushingly romantic. I’m not sure which quartet works you are talking about and from the sound of it I don’t know them; but I DO know Im Sommerwind…that’s certainly romantic. As is Verklärte Nacht and the mammoth Gurrelieder. And then there’s Berg, who through a feat of alchemy fused the fabric of music via the SVS rigors into a lyrical romantic tapestry, never REALLY left it all behind…even at his least Romantic, say, in the Orchestra pieces, Opus ____(errr…sorry, very late and too lazy to look it up!), the ghost of romanticism is heard. At least to me, anyway. I love those pieces. His language is so warm, so different than the harsh nearly ascetic quality of Webern. Like the difference between butter and eggshells.

I like a lot of pop music too, in fact I like all sorts of music. At the risk of sounding unbearably snobby, I like GOOD music. I can hardly think of a musical genre that doesn’t have some artist/style that I like. Unfortunately it is usually some fringe, obscure stuff that doesn’t yield too much more conversation or social compatibility (than Schönberg does) with the rest of the world, but hey, who needs that? Hehe…
People mock what they don’t understand. It’s a basic flaw in human cognition.

Many classical musicians, even professionals, still regard much of the work of the SVS with scorn. It’s sad.

What other composers do you like? Are you familiar with Messiaen? The Quartet for the End of Time is undoubtedly our flagship piece. A glorious, unearthly, terrible vision of apocalypse. The piece really does seem to freeze time before your very eyes (ears?!). That’s a whole new thread, though, really. Don’t wanna hijack…

Oh- my apologies about the long interval, I have not checked out this board in a while, I’ve been away and busy, etc.

-Shingolicious

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Thanks for the link (- but I’d tell the web designer that the flash doesn’t work well in Mozilla!)

I’m wondering what’s your main focus? Obviously your site gives samples of Brahms, Hindemith, etc…would you describe yourselves as adventurous? Willing to try anthing, at least once?

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Will pass on that info (regarding problems in Mozilla) but help me out, to make it constructive- what problems have you had? do the contents of scroll windows CRAWL slowly along? Can you hear and see everything you should? etc.

Our main focus, I suppose is to promote new music, especially of living Nordic (though not necessarily Nordic!) composers. Just a few nights ago we played the debut concert of Martin Lohse, a Danish composer finishing at the Royal Conservatory here, some involved electronics, etc. Earlier this month we played a concert at the Warsaw Autumn Festival where the Luciano Berio Sequenza XIV for solo cello, along with a work of Bent S¿rensen (a Danish composer), Martin Lohse (already mentioned), and Ewa Podgorska (Polish composer) were premiered by us. Just to be nitpicky clear, the Podgorska and Lohse were world premieres, while the Berio and S¿rensen were Polish premieres. Whew. It’s all much less complicated than I explain here…some of our things involve multimedia elements such as live electronics, tapes, etc. Not exactly the infamous Stockhausen Helicopter Quartet, but we do our best to play current music, I think.

Actually I’m not sure what you mean by ‘try anything at least once’…no, I don’t think we would consider a piece requiring us to destroy our instruments a la the Who (which I have seen) or a piece which required us to throw raw meat at each other while nude (which I have not seen). But perhaps neither of these is what you had in mind.

But seriously, check out the repertoire section of the page and look under contemporary repertoire. Many of the pieces have been written for the ensemble so I like to think we are helping new music along in some way.

Thank you for your interest!
-Shingolicious

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Wow, I’d love to get to the Warsaw Autumn…lol maybe email me off the board, to avoid blocking everyone else’s discussions…

And hey, what’s to stop you doing “a piece which required us to throw raw meat at each other while nude”? :smiley:

Oh, and the Mozilla problem was with the flash on the main page, which appeared unreadably small, and the zoom option cut off the bottom of the animation