I thought about putting this in the Musk thread, but I haven’t opened it, abnd it’s got over a thousand entries. So I started this.
Stumbled across this this morning:
The math is real. But given the sample size of CTs is ~1/100th the sample size of Pintos we may well be looking at a statistical blip not a real signal.
If indeed CTs keep burning at the current rate, it’s a good bet many (most) of the next 99x as many CTs built will have improvements in their battery packs.
But that math quibble aside, that is a very interesting bit of news. It sure suggests Tesla ought to be urgently examining the source of these fires.
I also wonder how the CT’s fire rate compares to other Tesla products and indeed US-marketed EVs as a whole.
People have been warning about it for a while. Each Tesla model has had significant quality issues in its first year, which have improved as they figure things out. Some of this is deliberate. The ‘brilliant’ idea was to emulate the Silicon Valley model of releasing something known to have bugs and fixing them as they started popping up in the wild. Not a terrible idea for some code, bad idea for 2 (or more) ton metal death machines.
That said, some caveats - even as they figure out the worst of their build issues, Tesla is still near the bottom of the US market in terms of reliability and CTs are even more an outlier due to the unusual construction. Also note, the NHTSA has yet to do full crash testing on it (and given the current political situation, may never get around to it or may release bogus numbers). Other companies operating in the US aren’t in the habit of releasing vehicles that require quite so many recalls in a first model year.
While full battery EVs are new, hybrids have been around for decades. Other major manufacturers figured a lot out about potential fires. They still occur but I can say you probably did not get a lot of stories in 2005 about Prius owners dying from fires and explosions.
So it isn’t a CT CT?
Certainly noT.
I live in San Francisco, and Teslas (mostly cars) are everywhere, in great quantities. They all have license plates showing they were purchased within the past 3 years or so. If the reliability is so low, what is driving people to buy them?
I wouldn’t have one as a gift, I wouldn’t want to be responsible (after I sold it on) for someone else’s nightmares.
p.s. I saw a CT in baby blue in Palm Springs a couple of weeks ago. First time I had ever seen one in a color. It looked even worse than regular ones, if that’s possible.
Perhaps ugly is flammable?
I have seen several of these on the road. The ugly is palpable.
I saw ne of these tonight. On a Tesla, appropriately
Note that Pintos were very popular for awhile.
I don’t remember the year, but my grandmother had a Pinto. One day the brakes failed (I’ve been told this was a common yet little discussed issue with the car), and it went straight through the back of the garage. No fires or injuries resulted.
I’ve seen the “I bought it before he went crazy” sticker on a Tesla; apparently there are other variants of increasing vulgarity.
The reliability isn’t low in absolute terms, just in relative terms.
They’re near the bottom among major manufacturers, but that would be almost market leading compared to 30 or 40 years ago. American car companies really stepped up their game under foreign (read: mainly Japanese) competitive pressure, especially after the gas crisis.
If reliability is really a buyer’s key consideration (for most Americans, it is clearly not), Tesla shouldn’t be their first choice, but if reliability is a 3rd or 4th priority, they’re perfectly fine.
They’re hardly death traps. Well most of them.
That said, you would have to pay me to own one of their models in the first year of production. As I noted, they figure out a lot of their big issues as they ramp up production, so those first several hundred thousand cars are a perfect example of caveat emptor. But in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th year of production, they figure most of the major issues out while still not quite being up there at Ford, much less Toyota, QA/QC standards. That’s mainly what we’re seeing with the CT, and I imagine while they’ll still have some build issues, there won’t be as many in another 6-12 months and continue getting better.
The issue with the Pinto wasn’t that it would just spontaneously combust in any random accident. The issue was that the Pinto had bolts protruding from the rear differential housing, which is typically no big deal, but also that the gas tank was located directly behind the differential. So in the specific case of the Pinto being rear-ended, what you could easily end up with was the gas tank being pushed forward and into those protruding bolts, which would rip the gas tank open.
Having your gas tank being torn open in a collision is generally considered to be a bad thing.
If you drive straight into a garage (or straight into anything else) you probably won’t have an issue. You need to have an impact at the rear of the Pinto to push the gas tank forward into the rear diff. That’s when you get the big kaboom.
In an electric vehicle, any accident that crushes the batteries can cause a fire since the battery cells will be short-circuited. These types of fires release all kinds of nasty chemicals and can be very difficult to extinguish. The damaged batteries and damaged electrical system can also pose a shock hazard to emergency crews trying to extract accident victims from the vehicles and put out the flames.
Family car hand me down was a Pinto wagon that I drove to 160,000 miles on the original clutch. The 'spoding Pinto was the hatchback.
There’s the joke about how the Tesla Cybertruck is the long-sought-after safe, effective method of male birth control.
And even worse, from @Jackmannii’s cite:
Potentially catching on fire wasn’t the Pinto’s only problem. Its rear-end structure wasn’t designed to properly absorb hard impacts, and the buckling floorpan would separate from the rear fenders, allowing fuel and flames into the Pinto’s cabin. Furthermore, body deformity could jam the doors shut, preventing escape from the burning Pinto and making rescue more difficult.
So it was literally a potential fire trap.
They’re probably Musk cultists who don’t care about or don’t believe in the reliability & safety issues.
Which I had; a 1973 Pinto Runabout. By the time it was handed down to me in 1979, it had already been recalled and a steel plate installed to protect the gas tank in a collision. I put a lot of miles on it before totaling it on the freeway at 3 in the morning as 19 year olds were wont to do back in the day. I rolled it doing nearly 90 mph and walked away with a small bump where my head shattered the driver side window. That Pinto was safer and more reliable than the Volkswagens I owned for the rest of the 1980s.