Considering some of the same-sex marriage threads we’ve had here, your reading makes perfect sense.
Promise.
Immediately after I raise my coffee cup in a toast to you.
Well said.
David is right.
I am saying that when I talk to family members and those in our circle of close friends. They are so passionate, and so angry that I am a little baffled. I have to ask them if they are being compelled to do anything against their will, and assure them I would be against that. So once I clarify that no, they are not being forced to personally marry a same sex partner . . . but that their business might be forced to sanction such an ungodly thing - I ask them why they are SO VERY upset about what someone else decides to do in a consenting and informed manner. The answer seems to always be: if it is legal someone will do it and that is wrong. Deciding what is right or wrong for other people is not a problem for these individuals.
It is truly not unreasonable to presume there was some personal skin in the game when the passion associated with the topic is viewed in person. The most thoughtful among this group will eventually conclude that it is personal to them because by allowing others to sin by not passing laws that forbid it they are complicit in the sin. The less thoughtful narrow their eyes and tell me that I know they are right and I am just using that book learin’ I am ‘so proud’ of to win an argument and it won’t do me a bit of good on judgment day. (Pride is another sin I am guilty of committing.)
Exactly. Thank you for clarifying my meaning.
Have you ever asked them how they felt about Mathew 7:1?
Not until Phase 3 of my plan.
How is that coming, anyway ??
And I apologize for the phrasing which is not as clear as I had intended. I never intended to suggest anyone on the left was forcing anyone on the right into having an abortion or into a gay marriage. I simply meant that in my (former) circle - they can’t distinguish between those very different situations.
Please understand, my friends and family are not bad people, narrow minded and stubborn yes – but basically good people. That is why it is so frustrating to be unable to reach them with - - - with reality!
They don’t arm themselves and go look for trouble, even locally (we had plenty of protests here in downtown). They give to charities (besides their own churches), they help others, etc. But they are completely blind to Trump’s flaws. The closest anyone has come to admitting Trump is imperfect is saying “others are worse”. (Bad plan for them since they believe in absolutes; so you are saying it is okay to commit a crime as long as someone else has committed a worse crime? If that is true then everything this side of genocide is fair game, right? No wonder they think I am an asshole, right?)
Some people can’t be reached by reality, only by ritually destroying a dumb college kid with FACTS and LOGIC.
I completely understand and sympathize and often find myself in the same boat. For a slightly different issue – I find that many people struggle to accept that sure, they started from nothing and clawed their way up, but there were many factors that actually worked in their favor, and so their rejection of anyone who hasn’t managed to do the same is troubling.
Yeah, that’s what I believed, and tried to keep thinking.
But this last year has disuaded that.
I try not to initiate politics with my family, especially in person, but sometimes I email back and forth with a bit of political disagreement.
What I found was that my mother doesn’t seem to care in the slightest about the truth or reality. She would make claims that were not true, I would provide cites to refute her claims, and she would either ignore them or disparage their sources, even if they came from people at Fox News.
I came to the realization that she has never really cared about the truth, and that she has always been a pathological lying narcissist, but it really took an objective look from a different perspective to see this.
They lie, not because they have to, but because they want to. They want to confuse and confound the truth, they want to gaslight and abuse those around them.
They are “good people” to those that they deem to be good people and to those that they want something from. They are not good people unless they are good people to all people, not just those they think of as deserving.
Had a friend who was describing another friend. He said, “Well, he’s definitely racist, (in that he would go on racist rants and freely use the N-word in those rants) but other than that, he’s a really good guy.”
I said, “No, he’s a really good guy to you, but he’s not a good guy.”
I think you have the answer right there. I just needed to discuss it with someone outside the bubble to see what you have pointed out as true.
I have seen someone have to go take blood pressure medication because Bernie Sanders appeared on a muted TV screen (FOX News of course!). Didn’t even know what was being said but had to go get his pills. Hearing any of the four liberal congresswomen known as ‘The Squad’ speak is enough to ruin a moment. Sometime I feel one needs a lab coat and a clipboard to share a meal with these folks: “When subjected to images of Nancy Pelosi, the subjects became agitated and threw food at the screen. There was an abundance of aggressive posturing and threatening gestures.”
What I find Ironic is that if Stalin, Mao, or the elder Kim showed up today, Trump and the current Republicans would probably support their actions, and claim that they are better leaders than someone like Biden could ever be. They already do with the Putin and the current Kim. At this point I’m convinced that the Trump supporters would probably vote for Putin or Kim Jong-un (and probably even Stalin himself despite their railing against Marxism) than they would vote for Biden. IIRC there were some people at one of Trump’s rallies that said something to the effect that the Russians were better than the Democrats.
The only conclusion I can come to is that the current Republicans are now an authoritarian personality cult. They see themselves as having more in common with other authoritarians than with freedom loving people. In other words it’s not the specific policies they have an issue with. They’ve reached a point where they truly do hate freedom.
I have to admit I have not.
Since they all more or less agree, I am the outsider who is judging them (and I do judge them). There are some premises at play here though. I believe their claim would be that God himself will judge me for my atheism and for voting for the Socialists. What is more, as an atheist my judgement means nothing and all are free to ignore it. But all of that is sort of an unspoken underlying framework. I would be inclined to argue the one (I had to look up the reference - it is John 7:24) about judging a righteous judgement rather than by appearance and claim my judgement is righteous. I see however that this leads to the martyrdom of Jesus so it might not be a good plan for me to follow.
I have told them I am more valuable than many sparrows on occasion however. No matter what I say in this area it sounds mocking, and most recently – they are right. Thank you for the suggestion. I just really don’t sweat over judgement day being an atheist now.
They are causing it, so I suppose they should know.
I’m always wanting to ask such Christians if what they’re doing isn’t just being judgemental of those who sin differently from them? And isn’t that against their God’s very specific dictate?
Because that’s what it always seems to boil down to to me. I mean, their every issue, comes down to that basically.
Makes me wonder what they are actually teaching in church, and how much they really understand their own Bible!
There is only one unforgivable sin, and that is to profane the holy spirit.
They commit this sin regularly to speak for god and tell their congregations who to condemn and who to worship.
They are not teaching Christianity in these churches, they are teaching hate and loathing for their fellows.
This is not to say that all Christians are like this, nor all Christian churches. But enough, more then enough, I would say.
Not bad, you remembered the all-important capitalization in two of the words, but missed capitalizing DESTROYING.
Amen.
What I once said in an online discussion:
So … you’re a member of some sort of book club, but your book club only ever reads the one book. You cherry pick it, twist its words, ignore its real teachings, read things into it that utterly aren’t in there, pretend it’s non-fiction, and then castigate those of us who don’t wish to live by interpretation of its words ?
Uh, when is the last time there was a fiscally conservative Republican? The answer is Eisenhower. Under him, the top marginal tax rate was 91%. JFK lowered that to 70% IIRC. Then came Viet Nam which blew the budget. I’m not too sure about Nixon, but he kept the war going. I don’t think much changed with Carter, but along came Reganomics which blew the budget wide open. Bush 41 did raise taxes a bit and things did stabilize some. But Clinton seriously raised taxes and had a surplus for a couple of years in the late 90s. People were discussing seriously what to do with those surpluses. Well Bush 43 solved that problem. Lower taxes and start two wars. Obama inherited a serious recession and ran deficits. Then came Trump who lowered taxes and blew the budget. I will leave the current mess out since neither party is responsible.
I want to reply to this, I have been trying to think of a concise way to address it, but I am failing. Let me just say that I agree with this sentiment even if it does not apply in every case.
At least in my case the people used to be more moderate, reasonable, and tolerant before FOX News and right-wing media consumed their entire thought process. I just wish they could switch back (no need to follow me as far as I have moved – just back to the reasonable people they once were). Like Darth Vader in third (or sixth if you must) Star Wars movie.