Well, asahi did not use the n-word at all.
Look, “Negro” is not a slur. It’s just an antiquated phrase, which is why it’s a reasonable word for asahi to use when imitating the thought process of some old southerner.
I can’t speak for the rest of the Dope, but I didn’t think y’all did and never mentioned a Star Chamber or a conspiracy or anything like that. Thanks for clarifying that, tho.
“Negro” isn’t the problem. The problem is deciding to attack someone by putting the shittiest and most cynical thoughts into their head, absent any evidence that they actually think them. It’s a shitty conversational gambit and worsens the board when it shows up.
Because even though I don’t think he would use such anachronistic language, I think that is probably how he views himself and justifies his political existence.
“Racism” is complex. Racism has different shades, and it is often confused with human base. I don’t think everyone is inherently racist, but everyone - Northam, you, me - has biases. Those biases are based on experience, and acculturation.
Trust me, I know better than many what kind of culture Northam grew up in - I’m from culture that’s not that different. I know what WASP frat boys say among each other when they think that it’s safe to go there. I’ve know a lot of Ralph Northams in my life - many of them good, likeable people in a lot of respects. Many of them proud that evolved beyond being bitter, angry, wife-beating bigots like some people they knew in high school, 'cause their folks raised 'em better 'n that.
But make no mistake about it: in their culture, in the culture I grew up in, it’s just understood: the white man is superior to blacks. Many people don’t question it. It’s just the way it is. Nasty whites become republican racists, but more gentlemanly whites become “moderates” and earn a reputation for protecting the black man from his more sinister white counterparts. Bill Clinton was that kind of white guy, which is why he was so angry when African American voters turned against his legacy and voted for Barack Obama against his wife - that would explain some of the race-baiting this his campaign engaged in.
There’s only so much I can address in one post. I’ve said much and yet there’s much more I need to say. Racism, bias, prejudice is complex stuff - much more complex than I ever imagined growing up the son, grandson, great grandson of Deep Southerners. It took me years out of the South to finally realize “What the holy fuck was that all about?!”
But I digress…
I don’t blame Bone for the warning. In this case, in my own sincere opinion, he got it wrong. But he got it wrong because I went over the top so many other times that it wasn’t easy for him to tell when I was being a rational, thoughtful poster, and when I was just uncorking myself and spewing all over the place. I put him and Colibri and others in that position.
It’s also well established that standards for on-board members vs public figures are very different. Putting words in the mouth of rival politicians is not, and never has been, beyond the pale here.
For the record: Bone, you are not wrong. The warning stays.
To back this up, someone wrote something that was wildly anti-Semitic Something about Jews being the biggest carrier of disease in history I don’t know, but it was in that ballpark. He finished it with a statement like “/edgy as diamond” To show how hip and down with it he was and it was all in good fun. Despite tons of screaming from certain people he was either banned or suspended for that. Saying something horribly racist and following up by “ha ha I was just joking” doesn’t get you off the hook for trolling. Which is exactly what I saw asahi do
Once again - what “horribly racist” thing did he say?
I’ll add that I also understand where the picture comes from. I’m ashamed to admit that understand it, but again, this is what you ‘understand’ when you grow up in that culture of implicit, unspoken white supremacy, where black people are maids or mechanics and whites are the doctors, lawyers, real estate agents, and bankers. The photo is a “joke” - ha ha. But it’s just a joke, you see. :rolleyes:
p.s. If you know anything about the history of the South, from Louisiana to Virginia, between 1866 and 1966, trust me…the KKK is not a fucking joke. They and their affiliates murdered an estimated 4000 black people. The term “lynching” doesn’t adequately describe it.
TERRORISM.
That’s the word we’re looking for.
Those aren’t the rules, though. There are tons cf comments that “hurt the level of discourse.” They occur all the time in GD. If they become a hijack, the mods may come in with a Note, but they don’t get Warnings.
The question here is whether he did what the Warning claimed, which was trolling or hate speech. And the answer to both of those is “no. It is parody.” And when the real stuff doesn’t get modded, but the parody of it does, then that’s not a good thing.
It’d be better if the real stuff got modded, no doubt. I may have said a thing or two on the subject before.
But I maintain that posts that lower the quality of the board should be more strictly moderated. And that’s a good thing.
Having mods guide the tone of a thread is fine. Mod notes are welcome. Bestowing a warning for trolling when trolling isn’t evident is a different action entirely.
The mods are way, waaaaaaay too slow to kick obvious trolls off the board. Seeing trolling where it’s not is the flip side of the same coin. The consistent bad judgement on trolling is the worst and most baffling behavior by the mods.
Attitudes toward other behaviors have been tweaked and improved recently. I’m sure the process wasn’t easy and the mod forum wore out a good many hamsters. Asking for another round of the same is a burden on volunteers. Even so, the issue of trolls requires a twist of the dial. It’s been looming forever. Now’s the time to deal with it.
For those folks that disagree, would you like to see every discussion that concerns race to be peppered with the descriptor, “the negro”? I wouldn’t. It’s inflammatory, and I assume most posters know this is the case. In a discussion that involves race why choose to walk the line on inflammatory rhetoric? It strikes me as trying to push the envelope. And given recent history I think this is a fair reading. Push the envelope too far and you can cross the line.
There’s an argument to be made that this word choice isn’t hate speech, merely anachronistic. Depending on context I could see this argument. I disagree with it, but it can be made. But here, given recent posting history, I see it as trying to push that line.
C’mon, I’m not even an American and I COULD SEE that ‘the negro’ was ironic. Who the fuck are you trying to fool Bone? Seriously? :rolleyes:
Negro or colored strikes me as somewhat anachronistic. My former black neighbors used colored frequently and negro less frequently. They were old and retired and we had some interesting conversations.
Concerning asahi’s usage? I’m not seeing any issue. He’s using it as a rhetorical device to insinuate the governor is an old-fashioned, paternalistic, racist. It’s a characterization of the governor and not at all used as a slur. Anyways, this is probably reason #17271 why I wouldn’t be a good mod.
Right, that was my point. He got a warning for putting 'Negro" in a politician’s mouth & I put a truly offensive word in a politician’s mouth and didn’t get warned. If I interpreted his post correctly, he was doing it to make a point, not to offend anyone. My motives were the same (and I’m hoping the statute of limitations is up on my getting warned for that post…).
He used the word exactly twice. He didn’t “pepper” anything.
And, no, neither use was particularly inflammatory, because none of those uses were racist.
As has been stated multiple time, and is the entire thesis of this thread: He put the words in the mouth of the racist person. All he did was use a rhetorical device to explain the guy’s racist reasoning.
The word “Negro” is only inflammatory if someone uses it in a racist manner. It is not a slur in and of itself.
As for his history: does he have a history of trying to get away with saying racist things? Of slipping in hate speech? He has a history of being saying angry things, sure. But not of racism. So his history doesn’t matter.
We know from past experience that you guys do not normally Warn people for putting hateful things in the mouth of off-board people. Enola Gay admits they did so themselves. And I’ve seen it other times.
asahi ws not being racist (not even sneakily), and without being racist, his use of “Negro” was not offensive. It is not a slur, and thus not offensive in and of itself.
As a long time lurker, and having followed what happened surrounding Huey et al., and now this, I must say I am quite disappointed with how racism has been handled here.
It is how we use words that is important, and the intention behind using them, not the presence of the words themselves taken out of context. I think if you couldn’t quite tell if it was hate speech or trolling, then the possibility that it is neither (or a third option) should be considered.
Used to sarcastically ridicule racists? i’d be just fine with it.
I think I’m coming around to seeing this as worth a note, but not a warning. It doesn’t improve the board for this sort of thing to go around, but given the history, the change should come along with notes.