Exactly. It was a mob with obvious violent intent. If somebody tags along just for the lulz, he may well catch a bullet as a result of that shitty decision. And the LEO firing into the breach can’t be held accountable for somehow not determining who was there to murder someone and who was there just for kicks.
I am certainly no lawyer, but am I wrong to see another issue here, besides self defence—defence of other innocent victims.
The mob led by Ashli. Babbit was not attacking the cop–they were attacking the congressmen.
Unlike the example above (about a cop in a toy store), the cop was not facing one person who was committing theft. The cop’s job was not to prevent a property crime, or stop a trespasser. His job was to defend the intended victims from a mob. I hope that the rules of engagement for opening fire take that into account.
If that unarmed person is backed up by a large, violent crowd that has already breeched several layers of active and passive defenses, and is currently trying to breech the last such line of defense, then yeah, sure, let’s establish the principle that it’s okay to shoot them in this case.
Context still matters.
It would be analogous if all of you had already been violent previously, all of you were running at that cop and there were innocent people on the other side of the door that you were planning on lynching.
And she wasn’t just ‘part of a mob’, she was literally the leading element of that mob. It probably took quite some effort on her part to end up in the position she was in when she was shot.
Yep, she was the point of the spear, and she experienced the consequences.
She got blunted.
Yep, she did.
After she was shot there was no point.
So who got the shaft?
The American people.
And worth noting that here the cop’s specific designated role was to protect others. I think the reasonable conditions for use of lethal force change considerably - the question of whether the cop had an available option to retreat to protect himself is not his principal consideration.
I don’t think she was any kind of leader, just the first one through the window.
Another thing, there have been cases where criminals have been shot dead by police, and their partners in crime have been convicted of felony murder. Why hasn’t this happened here? The people who broke the glass, and the people who helped raise Ashli Babbitt to climb through the window were all participants in a crime where someone died. Why haven’t they been charged with her murder?
I don’t think the statute applies when the police kill an accomplice. I think the felony murder statute has been (dubiously) applied when the police accidentally kill an innocent bystander?
Not correct. Here’s an example.
I wondered about this too. I have seen nothing to suggest she was organizing or a ringleader but was just the first one in. (But I really do not know and I do not think it changes much as regards the case in the OP. I doubt the officer that shot her had identified her as the leader and so was a better target to stop the overall incursion.)
That’s horrifying. Does anyone really think this is justice?
So you’re completely right - what a shock that felony murder is being selectively applied against young Black men.
I agree, that use of felony murder seems horrible and very, very wrong. I’d go on but not here.
That’s just one of many times the law has been applied, and the people charged are frequently white.
For simplified explanation of how the law works, see The Illustrated Guide to Law. It’s written by an actual experienced criminal lawyer. It’s in comic strip form, and simplified so that people without legal training can understand it.
Here’s the section on the law of homicide
And here’s an explanation of the law when an accomplice dies.
This is the law, it isn’t just used against black people.
I meant, she was actually physically in the lead. She wasn’t just hanging out in the middle of the crowd having fun running around the place. She had to have made particular efforts to be on the leading edge of the attack. Had she made it through that window, she’d have been the first to attack the people on the other side, and provide some cover for others to make it into that room.
She was leading the van, which is usually considered a position of honor. It’s also usually quite dangerous.