What’s the justification for this? Is PC version of “oriental” “east-Asian”?
Well, should us Asians get to call Europeans and Americans “Occidentals”?
Besdies, all oriental means is “eastern”. Asian refers to the continent Asians are from.
Personally, it sounds better. Oriental grates on my nerves. Probably because it sounds so old and stiff to me. Not because it’s a “PC term”.
Hijack - Why is it a lot people call something a “PC term” (read: negative) if it’s just a change to a new word?
Language changes and flows like water, get used to it.
Oh, and i’ve been using Asian for as long as I can remember. I’ve never used it because it’s supposdly “PC”.
I can’t remember where I heard the quote, but it was by some old war veteran or something. Something along the lines of, “Back in my day, we use to call it being PC being Polite.” or something like that. Ah well, I’ve always said Asian when I referred to people, but if you are talking about objects ( Oriental Rugs, Oriental Noodles ) I guess either one would be OK.
“Asian” has been used in most parts of California for the last 20 or so years.
I met one Asian guy who called Europeans Occidentals. He apparently learned it as the usual English word to call white people. I wasn’t insulted, just surprised for the couple of seconds it took register.
** Doobieous**
I have read works written by Asian authors and heard Asian speakers who refer to westerners as “occidental” and while only half my ancestry applies to that term I never found it offensive. Not completely accuarate, bot not offensive. Hell most crackers would just look at you and say “huh?” if you called them that thinking you meant to say “accidental” (which is more applicable in my specific case).
To me “Oriental” means furniture and food and Asian is people, but not for fear of offending anyone. Just the way I have always understood it to be.
I think PC really means “the words we use because, while we don’t understand why, the words we think piss people off”.
As an observation it would seem that a big problem with American society is that we all are in a real hurry to say we belong to some subsect rather than just saying we are American(s). Especially those that can claim some kind of minority status. Maybe it is fucked up to be Asian or Hispanic or Black or whatever in America but I’ll bet it’s pretty fucked up to be anything at one time or another. I look Caucasian so I don’t get hassled overtly for being a Jew and yet I don’t thin anyone would lend any credence to my asserting that I want to be referred to as an anglo-american, in fact some would probably think I’m a prick (they would be right). So why is it that every time a group other than WASPS decide they want’ to change titles they aren’t laughed off the face of the Earth? Hell I’m just old enough and from a part of the world to remember when Black people didn’t want to be called “black”. I mean it would be one thing if the name was delivered with intentional malice like the “n” word or the “g” word (in the case of Asian people), but “Oriental” as a word may be innacurate but I just don’t see it as worth of anger on anyones part.
On a related note listen to how famous bi-racial people act depending on who is interviewing them and how specific commentary comes from specific places. I’m thinking about Tiger Woods and how it didn’t matter what race he was to Jet magazine until he won a PGA tour, and how Tiger himself didn’t give two cent’s about it and to my knowledge does not adress the issue (justifiable as it is a non-issue and beneath him). Seems like race and culture have been co-opted by politics, and that does nothing to further one’s heritage.
I dunno’, thats just my $1.25 on it.
I read once that the murky origins of the word “Asia” indicate that it might come from a word (from a language that I don’t recall) for “East.”
It’s nothing new that some indigenous people’s name for itself isn’t what others (in this case, Europeans) use.
Both Asia' and orient’ come from words meaning eastern'. I suspect that the distinction of asian’ meaning people and oriental' meaning *things* is of fairly recent coinage, and is not the real reason behind the stigma attatched to the word oriental’.
I have only recently (last five or so years) heard that oriental is sometimes frowned upon. It seems to me that asian is much less precise. I always used oriental to refer to people from China, Japan, and Korea. I don’t think that word would work for someone from India or even Thailand or Indonesia.
And if you’re using one of the two terms at all, it seems to me that you might as well be more precise. Neither term seems inherently more or less offensive than the other.
I agree with CURTC. To me Oriental was Chinese, Japanese or even Vietnamese.
But Filipino, Indonesian, Indian, Pakastani or even Israeli can properly be designated as Asian.
Oops hit the button too soon.
As an aside. On a Cosby show Denise is showing her step daughter how to term people
Denise) Don’t say black say African American. Don’t say Oriental say Asian. Don’t say White, say Caucasian(sp?)
Interesting When I was in school in the late 60s early 70s we had three races Negro, Oriental and Caucasian. Now Two of the terms are not PC but Caucasian still is.
In my experience, it’s been more of a generational thing than a PC thing. My parents and anyone their age/older than them tend to say “Oriental”. Us kids tend to say “Asian”.
That items vs. objects distinction is a new one on me.
I’m 34, and am an Oriental. That’s what I was called when I was a kid.
(I was called lots of other derogatory things, too, having nothing to do with race, but we won’t get into that…)
I don’t particularly recall when “Asian” became the normal or “PC” word to use. It was pretty ingrained by the time I was in college ('84 or so). But I definitely recall “Oriental” being used in my childhood. I wouldn’t have thought to correct someone by informing them that I’m “Asian”.
I think both words are equally acceptable, but am well aware that this is the minority view. And if a fellow “whatever” wishes to call him or herself “Asian”, of course I’ll oblige them.
But personally, I admit that I think that getting irritated at someone for using the term “Oriental” is silly. I prefer to reserve my irritation for terms that are clearly intended to be derogatory. “Oriental”, is, to me anyway, clearly NOT intended to be derogatory. At worst, it’s outmoded. (I feel similarly about “black” and “colored person”, by the way.)
Just one person’s opinion, but true tolerance is not only avoiding giving offense, it’s choosing not to take offense, as well. I choose not to take offense at such an innocuous word such as “Oriental”.
From a UK perspective: here when somebody uses the term ‘asian’ they would usually be referring to people from the Indian sub-continent. That’s because the vast majority of ethinc asians resident here heve their origins in that region. The term ‘oriental’ would be used for people originating in the far east which I understand make up the majority of asians in the US - is that true?
AFAIK ‘oriental’ is not considered offensive here.
True. I moved to the States from Scotland in '79, & go back frequently. I hear the term “Oriental” over there, but since moving here I say Asian…just because Oriental sounds outmoded, somehow.
Such things have always been fundamental parts of politics: most nationalist/ethnic definitions in the modern world have been defined through and by political needs. Nothing new here, except a consciousness of the change when it happens.
Stranger still is that ‘Caucasian’ refers to the Caucasus (sp?) Mountains, a range that runs between the Caspian and Black Seas. This area looks like it’s in Asia to me.
A question: My grandparents were from Irkutsk, Russia, a city on the banks of Lake Baikal and about 150 miles north of Mongolia. Were they Asian? Am I? Or is our heritage defined further back, so that we should be termed Europeans? How much further can we go? According to Leaky, we’re all Africans then.
And my nephews who were born in Zaire: are they American-Africans?
My wife grew up in Hong Kong, and is of Chinese descent. We live in Ohio. She became a U.S. Citizen just last year.
It annoys both of us when people refer to her as “Asian American,” “Asian,” “Oriental,” etc.
She’s an American.
Yeah…I want to know why those of us in the USA aren’t simply American. I mean, when people ask my ancestry, I say I’m part German, part English, part French, Dutch, Irish, etc…but why? Why not just American. The US has been around long enough that we can identify ourselves as our own nationality right?
Jman
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by AWB *
**
White folks are called “Caucasian” because it was thought they originally hailed from the Caucasus mountains; the reason being, there’s a lot of old languages that have managed to survive in the rugged terrain there. Of course, that doesn’t prove that the languages originated there, or that language is the same as race. In fact, I don’t believe that any one now believes that the Caucasus mountains are in fact the birthplace of white people.