Ask a car salesman!

In My Humble Opinion
61

You mention quite a bit about finding what you want before coming to buy the car – a philosophy I agree with completely. But I’m wondering what your advice is to someone who doesn’t know what they want and needs to do some test-driving first.

In my last car-buying experience, I contacted the internet sales person beforehand at most of the dealerships I went to and explained what I was doing. I tended to get a lot less sales pressure from them because they knew what I was doing and that I wasn’t planning to waste a lot of their time, either. Five minutes to test drive the car, we shake hands, I get their card, and I’m gone.

In the experiences where I walked in without a prior relationship and tried to test drive a car, I got the high-pressure sales pitch despite explaining that I was still very much in the process of shopping and wouldn’t be buying anything that day. In fact, I had one dealership (I won’t name names because I can’t recall if this is against SD rules) tell me that I couldn’t test drive their cars because they didn’t want extra miles being put on them. When I protested about what a ridiculous policy that was (how in the hell could I know if I wanted the car if I had no idea what it was like to drive?!), I was told that the cars were selling themselves with no problem, so they weren’t worried about it. :mad:

So, having said all of that, what is your opinion of the best way to approach a dealership about a pre-purchase test drive without getting the schtick? How would you deal with a potential customer who told you he or she truly was still narrowing down their choices and had no interest in buying that day?

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[QUOTE=Asimovian]
But I’m wondering what your advice is to someone who doesn’t know what they want and needs to do some test-driving first.

In my last car-buying experience, I contacted the internet sales person beforehand at most of the dealerships I went to and explained what I was doing. I tended to get a lot less sales pressure from them because they knew what I was doing and that I wasn’t planning to waste a lot of their time, either. Five minutes to test drive the car, we shake hands, I get their card, and I’m gone.

In fact, I had one dealership (I won’t name names because I can’t recall if this is against SD rules) tell me that I couldn’t test drive their cars because they didn’t want extra miles being put on them. When I protested about what a ridiculous policy that was (how in the hell could I know if I wanted the car if I had no idea what it was like to drive?!), I was told that the cars were selling themselves with no problem, so they weren’t worried about it. :mad:

So, having said all of that, what is your opinion of the best way to approach a dealership about a pre-purchase test drive without getting the schtick? How would you deal with a potential customer who told you he or she truly was still narrowing down their choices and had no interest in buying that day?
[/QUOTE]

You asked what my advice was for someone who did not know what car they wanted prior to test driving, but I think you answered it about no-pressure from internet sales people, because they know what you are there for. But to go a little further, I would suggest doing research and limiting it down to the cars you like the looks of, price range, power, etc. Limit it to three or four ‘like cars’, and test drive from there (schedule an appt).

About not test driving certain cars because they do not want miles, etc… what kind of car are you trying to test drive? I know some high end cars are like that, understandably, or maybe some cars that are VERY limited (super short supply going off the shelves). Here at Mercedes I have told customers that they could not test drive CERTAIN cars, but it is definitely limited. If I really think someone is trying to get a joy ride (18 year old, etc.) on a car they have no real chance of buying, I will say no. Also, if someone is 6 months out of when they are looking to buy, I have said no to a test drive. But to me, these are obvious reasons.

For me, if someone said they just want a test drive and did not want to buy that day, I would drive them. Only 50% of my sales are from people I just shook hands with that day. I have a lot of residual business. But it could be my market. At Toyota, probably 80% are from that day.

NOW, if you just want to take a test drive, you should REALLY, REALLY not go on a weekend, as it is not fair to the salesperson. Weekends are full of ‘buyers’ who can’t buy a car during weekdays. If you must go in, try to schedule an appt (on the phone or preferrably throught the internet) to take the test drive. Tell the salesperson that you want to schedule it at a time that is good for him, so not to waste his/her time. Don’t forget that most of them have bills to pay. Be courteous.

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[QUOTE=FormerMarineGuy]
You asked what my advice was for someone who did not know what car they wanted prior to test driving, but I think you answered it about no-pressure from internet sales people, because they know what you are there for. But to go a little further, I would suggest doing research and limiting it down to the cars you like the looks of, price range, power, etc. Limit it to three or four ‘like cars’, and test drive from there (schedule an appt).

About not test driving certain cars because they do not want miles, etc… what kind of car are you trying to test drive? I know some high end cars are like that, understandably, or maybe some cars that are VERY limited (super short supply going off the shelves). Here at Mercedes I have told customers that they could not test drive CERTAIN cars, but it is definitely limited. If I really think someone is trying to get a joy ride (18 year old, etc.) on a car they have no real chance of buying, I will say no. Also, if someone is 6 months out of when they are looking to buy, I have said no to a test drive. But to me, these are obvious reasons.

For me, if someone said they just want a test drive and did not want to buy that day, I would drive them. Only 50% of my sales are from people I just shook hands with that day. I have a lot of residual business. But it could be my market. At Toyota, probably 80% are from that day.

NOW, if you just want to take a test drive, you should REALLY, REALLY not go on a weekend, as it is not fair to the salesperson. Weekends are full of ‘buyers’ who can’t buy a car during weekdays. If you must go in, try to schedule an appt (on the phone or preferrably throught the internet) to take the test drive. Tell the salesperson that you want to schedule it at a time that is good for him, so not to waste his/her time. Don’t forget that most of them have bills to pay. Be courteous.
[/QUOTE]
Thank you for all of this. The advice is much appreciated.

The car in question was a Mini Cooper. I realize that they are extremely popular cars (as they were three years ago, when this incident took place), but seriously. I can’t even drive it around the block? I can’t say I have a lot of respect for all of these consumers the salesman claimed were buying them sight-unseen. That’s a pretty large investment for most people to make.

At any rate, I now find myself in the position of helping a friend buy a car, and she wants…you guessed it!..a Mini Cooper. I’m really very excited to be helping her (especially since I’m going to at least get to test drive with her), but I’m hoping to avoid a similar situation as the one I experienced when I was trying to buy. So again, thank you for your advice!

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[QUOTE=Asimovian]
Thank you for all of this. The advice is much appreciated.

The car in question was a Mini Cooper. I realize that they are extremely popular cars (as they were three years ago, when this incident took place), but seriously. I can’t even drive it around the block? I can’t say I have a lot of respect for all of these consumers the salesman claimed were buying them sight-unseen. That’s a pretty large investment for most people to make.

At any rate, I now find myself in the position of helping a friend buy a car, and she wants…you guessed it!..a Mini Cooper. I’m really very excited to be helping her (especially since I’m going to at least get to test drive with her), but I’m hoping to avoid a similar situation as the one I experienced when I was trying to buy. So again, thank you for your advice!
[/QUOTE]

I would have to side with the sale consultant on this one. When the Mini Cooper first came out, a lot of dealers were charging over sticker. Because of the demand on them, they were moving quickly. So the no test drive thing probably made a little business sense, and weeded out the ‘not so serious’ buyer and the joy riders.

But now a test drive will definitely be avaialble.

Buying a car sight unseen, I do it ALL OF THE TIME (with my customers). Buying a car without a test drive. Hell, 30-40% of my customers never get one (sometimes they don’t ask, sometimes it is impossible).

65

Hope I didn’t wait to long to jump on tihs thread.

Let’s say I want to buy a used car off the lot. What can I do to get the dealer down to his lowest price?

66

Market Value adjustment…is it something your dealership does? From what I’ve seen, with very little exception (2006 Corvette Z06), it’s an amount you can knock off during the first round of negotiation.

I can understand the dealership wanting to make the most out of a supply and demand market, but do you really see folks paying $2000-$15000 over MSRP?

Also: When we purchased a Corvette in 1998, we ended up paying 42k for a used car with 9000 miles on it (MSRP for the car new was 42k), But what was odd was: They were flinging lease pakcages at us and the value of the car was all over the map, IIRC, one was 46000 and another was 44000. Sounds like the lease paperwork is another place to hide additional profit. Does this jive with your experience, or was this just a crappy dealership?

Lastly, in that deal, I saw a lineitem for $175. I asked the finance guy what it was and he said ‘for engraving the VIN on the removable top.’ I said ‘take it off’, and the guy didn’t skip a beat in pulling out new forms and re-printing the deal. Makes me wonder what else they managed to hide in there. Ah well, the car’s paid off now, for better or worse.

I’ve heard January/February is the best time to purchase a car, I’ve also heard End of model year (late summer) is the best time…when’s the best time to purchase a new car?

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[QUOTE=Plan B]
Hope I didn’t wait to long to jump on tihs thread.

Let’s say I want to buy a used car off the lot. What can I do to get the dealer down to his lowest price?
[/QUOTE]

Negotiate, negotiate, negotiate. It is a little harder with a pre-owned car. But the best thing to do is find ‘like’ cars for sale in your area (or within a hundred miles). You can use various sites like autotrader.com, cars.com, etc. to find all cars like that.

The dealer will try to say stuff like “well this car has a clean carfax, this is a nicer car, etc.”. Don’t fall for that, call around, shop on the internet, and limit it to the cars you were interested in. For example, let’s say you were interested in pre-owned 2004 Honda Accord. You wouldn’t just show up at a dealer to look at all of the Accords they have. You would limit it to the mile range you were interested in, the color, etc., and go from there. It gives you a little more power.

68

[QUOTE=Unintentionally Blank]
Market Value adjustment…is it something your dealership does? From what I’ve seen, with very little exception (2006 Corvette Z06), it’s an amount you can knock off during the first round of negotiation.

I can understand the dealership wanting to make the most out of a supply and demand market, but do you really see folks paying $2000-$15000 over MSRP?

Also: When we purchased a Corvette in 1998, we ended up paying 42k for a used car with 9000 miles on it (MSRP for the car new was 42k), But what was odd was: They were flinging lease pakcages at us and the value of the car was all over the map, IIRC, one was 46000 and another was 44000. Sounds like the lease paperwork is another place to hide additional profit. Does this jive with your experience, or was this just a crappy dealership?

Lastly, in that deal, I saw a lineitem for $175. I asked the finance guy what it was and he said ‘for engraving the VIN on the removable top.’ I said ‘take it off’, and the guy didn’t skip a beat in pulling out new forms and re-printing the deal. Makes me wonder what else they managed to hide in there. Ah well, the car’s paid off now, for better or worse.

I’ve heard January/February is the best time to purchase a car, I’ve also heard End of model year (late summer) is the best time…when’s the best time to purchase a new car?
[/QUOTE]

You can always use the market value adjustment to your advantage, but if you are like my dealer, you do not really pay attention to those things, as they are NOT always correct and sometimes benefit the dealer more than the customer.

Yes, I do see people commonly paying over sticker for a car. It is the price some pay to be the first ones on the road driving the car. Also, the common way most dealers get people to pay over sticker is buy add-ons done at the dealership (after market wheels, chrome stick-ons, etc.), and from holding back on the trade. You might think you ended up getting a thousand off during negotiations, but in reality you are paying three thousand over sticker (SUCKER).

I don’t think lease paperwork is used to hide crappy deals, I think the paperwork is there to actually protect the consumer. I say look it over to make sure there are no add-ons. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO READ THE WHOLE THING. If it is part of the permanent contract (stuff not hand-written or typed in), you CAN NOT change it. Pay attention to the stuff written in their though.

About leasing, it is a good way to go sometimes, but is easier to get ripped off. Always negotiate the selling price of the car, and from there see what the lease is. Ask what the money factor/interest rate is, and how much they marked it up.

There is NEVER a best time to buy a car, only the customers perception of when the best time is. For example, on the model year end, you can get more off of the sticker (with discounts and rebates), but you also have less value on the car because it becomes a year older. The end of the month (somtimes) might be a good time to get a car, but there is the same markup at the beginning of the month as in the end of the month (unless the company has some kind of kickback from the manufacturer).

I say buy the car you want when you want, and USE THE INTERNET.

69

Do read all of a USED car contract, especially one of those “buy here pay here”. Look for “the Rule of 78’s” where all you payments go for interest 1st, not principal, so pretty much until the day you pay it off you’re in the hole.

In general, Mercedes dealers seem to be fairly honest guys, so I’d say you can trust what the OP is telling you.

Toyota dealers are huge crooks. If they tell you the sun is shining- confirm it. They sell great cars, and they know it so they have a “4 way” rip-off scheme. FormerMarineGuy- want to comment on that?

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What’s the worst you ever seen case of someone being upside-down on payments trying to buy another new car?

I knew a gal who was driving a Nissan Xterra that she said she still owed about $45,000 on. I asked her how she could owe more than the vehicle was even worth brand new and it was because she kept trading in vehicles every couple years for a brand new one.

71

Former, you say you’re a Mercedes dealer. How do you deal with breakdowns involving visitors’ Mercedes products not sold in the States, such as (AFAIK) the B-class and the Smart? I ask this because my friend here in the Toronto area is thinking of buying a Smart fortwo, and his parents drive to Florida each winter, and what would happen if he drove down with them in the Smart and it broke down? Can US Mercedes service centres help at all?

My own question… I have never bought a car.

Let’s say I have sufficient funds in my bank accout for a car and just want to pay for it cash. How do I pay for one?

Do you accept personal cheques? If so, I presume there is some kind of checking you do to make sure that the cheque is valid.

If not, is there some kind of bank transfer that must be done? Would I have to call my bank beforehand and arrange the transfer first? Is it true that you can buy a car on a (high-limit) credit card? Do you make less money on cash (that is, non-financed) sales? Do many people pay cash for a car?

Let’s now say that I am an ordinary Joe who must finance a car. I’ve chosen my car and you have sold me on it. What are the steps I have to do to actually buy it?

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[QUOTE=DrDeth]
Do read all of a USED car contract, especially one of those “buy here pay here”. Look for “the Rule of 78’s” where all you payments go for interest 1st, not principal, so pretty much until the day you pay it off you’re in the hole.

In general, Mercedes dealers seem to be fairly honest guys, so I’d say you can trust what the OP is telling you.

Toyota dealers are huge crooks. If they tell you the sun is shining- confirm it. They sell great cars, and they know it so they have a “4 way” rip-off scheme. FormerMarineGuy- want to comment on that?
[/QUOTE]

I would say read any contract where something is typed in or written in. If it is not typed or written, personally, I think there is no need to read it. NOW, I AGREE WITH YOU when it comes to “buy here, pay here” places, but I don’t think there is EVER a need to buy at one of those places unless you have had a few repos and credit is beyond repair. They prey on minorities and people new to the country. They will rip you off like you have NEVER been ripped off before. STAY AWAY.

As far as the “rule of 78’s”, stay away from anything that is not a simple-interest loan.

In general, Toyota dealers are crooks, but only because they can get away from it. There ARE always exceptions, as with any type of company. But they try to take advantage of the uneducated, so stay educated.

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[QUOTE=Hampshire]
What’s the worst you ever seen case of someone being upside-down on payments trying to buy another new car?

I knew a gal who was driving a Nissan Xterra that she said she still owed about $45,000 on. I asked her how she could owe more than the vehicle was even worth brand new and it was because she kept trading in vehicles every couple years for a brand new one.
[/QUOTE]

Well, I work at high end so it is common to see people $10,000 upside down, often, but they don’t really care. They other day I saw someone 25k upside down (they had an Audi trade-in). When you lease, you tend to be upside down more, so you are always better off staying in it.

If your gal-friend trades in a car every couple of years, she has no business financing. She should DEFINITELY be leasing.

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[QUOTE=Sunspace]
Former, you say you’re a Mercedes dealer. How do you deal with breakdowns involving visitors’ Mercedes products not sold in the States, such as (AFAIK) the B-class and the Smart? I ask this because my friend here in the Toronto area is thinking of buying a Smart fortwo, and his parents drive to Florida each winter, and what would happen if he drove down with them in the Smart and it broke down? Can US Mercedes service centres help at all?
My own question… I have never bought a car.
Let’s say I have sufficient funds in my bank accout for a car and just want to pay for it cash. How do I pay for one?
Do you accept personal cheques? If so, I presume there is some kind of checking you do to make sure that the cheque is valid.
If not, is there some kind of bank transfer that must be done? Would I have to call my bank beforehand and arrange the transfer first? Is it true that you can buy a car on a (high-limit) credit card? Do you make less money on cash (that is, non-financed) sales? Do many people pay cash for a car?
Let’s now say that I am an ordinary Joe who must finance a car. I’ve chosen my car and you have sold me on it. What are the steps I have to do to actually buy it?
[/QUOTE]

For the B-Class and Smart car, I am sure that a Mercedes dealer could help, but it would not be super pretty because the technicians are not certified, meaning they never had classes to take apart the car and put it back together.

To answer your question, if you have never bought a car before, you can either pay by personal check (they would still pull your credit), a bank/cashiers check, or transfer money. Most dealers will not take more than 5k on a credit card.

*Side note, if you have never financed a car, it might be a good idea to finance a little as to build your automobile credit, even if you have to pay some interest.

If you do a bank transfer, you would get the bank transfer information from the dealer and provide it to your bank. They will probably charge you a small fee (around $25 here) to do it. A bank check is much quicker.

We make more money on a finance or lease deal than a cash deal. So the old days of “I should get a better deal because I am paying cash” are long gone. Now dealers would rather you to lease or finance, any day!

A lot more people than you realize pay cash for a car. Older people tend to pay cash more than younger people.

If you decide to finance, negotiate the best price first, and find out their rates. You could already have your bank financing available, or at least know what rate they can give you. If you have a bank rate from your own bank (credit unions are always the best for new cars), don’t let the dealer know until they tell you what your rates are (but find out prior to pulling the credit, just let them know your situation). Worst case scenario is they can not beat or match the rate, and you move on and use your own.

75

Why would the dealer do a credit check (I assume that’s what you mean by ‘pulling the credit’) when the deal is cash? Is there not a separate cheque-validation system? (I am sure that I’ve seen such a thing here in Canada, but cheques are less and less frequently acceopted by businesses here; at least places like grocery stores don’t accept them any more).

So what are the steps in buying a car? I go to the dealer’s, meet a salesperson, and pick out a car. We agree on a proce. Then what? I presume we go into an office and there is paperwork. (I mean it–I have never bought a car. :slight_smile: ) There’s a bill of sale or transfer document or something, right, listing the vehicle and all its options?

Does the loan/lease paperwork take place first? And that’s the point where the customer would say, “I already have funds on hand?” Do we fill the loan application out, then you go and apply at your internal financing company, then come back with a yea or nay? (Do the nays happen a lot?)

76

[QUOTE=Sunspace]
Why would the dealer do a credit check (I assume that’s what you mean by ‘pulling the credit’) when the deal is cash? Is there not a separate cheque-validation system? (I am sure that I’ve seen such a thing here in Canada, but cheques are less and less frequently acceopted by businesses here; at least places like grocery stores don’t accept them any more).
So what are the steps in buying a car? I go to the dealer’s, meet a salesperson, and pick out a car. We agree on a proce. Then what? I presume we go into an office and there is paperwork. (I mean it–I have never bought a car. :slight_smile: ) There’s a bill of sale or transfer document or something, right, listing the vehicle and all its options?
Does the loan/lease paperwork take place first? And that’s the point where the customer would say, “I already have funds on hand?” Do we fill the loan application out, then you go and apply at your internal financing company, then come back with a yea or nay? (Do the nays happen a lot?)
[/QUOTE]

It depends on the amount of the check, and we do have insurance against bad checks here, but sometimes the company will not insure them (they check against bad checks, new accounts for the banks, starter checks, history of check-writing, etc.). To back up the person writing the check, we pull credit. If the person has a great credit history, we usually do not worry so much. If they have a bad credit history, they are less trustworthy and we are a little apprehensive to write the check.

The steps to buying a car are somehow you pick out the car and agree on the price with someone. You provide the necessary information (you are in Canada so the information provided might vary), you do a whole bunch of paperwork (tags, title, contracts, arbitration agreements, dealer protection paperwork, etc.), and that is it.

By this time they would already have known you were financing, leasing, or paying cash, so the paperwork would be done accordingly. You work out how you are going to pay (usually) with a sales consultant, and do your papework with someone else.

77

Just how good are the Kelley Blue Book values for what you can expect to get on a trade in from a dealer and how much to expect to pay for a used car?

78

[QUOTE=BobLibDem]
Just how good are the Kelley Blue Book values for what you can expect to get on a trade in from a dealer and how much to expect to pay for a used car?
[/QUOTE]

Sometimes pretty acurate, sometimes super far off. If the dealer can use it to their advantage, probably really far off to their advantage. If you can use it to your advantage, go for it.

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[QUOTE=Hampshire]
I just sold my 97’ Accord with 160K miles on it. You can always make more on a car selling it yourself vs. trading it in. Honda Accords and Civics are in very high demand as a used car. I suggest posting yours on craigslist.com (free).
Edmunds gave my used Accord three values. $1000 trade-in value. $2000 private seller value. And $3000 dealer price. I advertised mine for $3500, got 3 calls within the first day, and had it sold in 24 hours.
I actually sold it to a guy who bought it for his wife and actually worked at a used car dealer. He said the dealer he worked at never had any because no one ever, ever traded them in.
[/QUOTE]

Perfect! I too have a '97 Accord (with about 115k right now). I think I’ll do it your way. Great info!

-Cem

80

FormerMarineGuy:

May be a bit of a hijack here, but I wonder if anyone at Mercedes carea about the yearly reviews by Consumer Reports? Mercedes seems to get some fairly poor marks (then again, so do many non-Japanese models)…does this affect your sales? Or is the Mercedes brand strong enough to ignore that type of press?

To be honest, I’m not in the market for a Mercedes (as I’ve posted before in this thread). I can’t see spending a ton of money on a car, but that’s my position (and I can see why someone woudl want a nice shiny new car every two years, I guess).

This may be a tough question, but if you were not a salesperson for Mercedes, what car woudl you buy? Part of this is just curiosity, part is wondering what the car of choice is within the industry.

Have you worked for another brand? How did your job differ between that and Mercedes?

-Cem