I’ve noticed a wide range of knowledge regarding Islam in the various posts here. I think it’s time to fix some misconceptions.
I am a new muslim, but fairly well studied on the basics, Inshallah.
As an American who has not felt the need to abandon his culture, my understanding of the faith may differ with other, more fundamentalist types. In Islam, that’s ok. We are allowed to have differences of opinion and interpretation, as long as it doesn’t lead to sectarianism.
Ask away. You might find out some things you didn’t expect.
Blatantly hostile, rhetorical, or “Trolling” type posts shan’t be dignified with a response. Sincere questions are welcome, regardless of the source.
Here’s a guideline for prior assumptions. If you heard it in the American Media or from your pastor/priest/minister/rabbi, it is probably not 100% accurate. many religions have skewed ideas about Islam dating back to the oh-so-scholarly days of the Crusades or from current political/territorial tensions.
How can one stand for the Islamic faith, when it blantently teaches…
**“Those who disbelieve (in Allah) among the ‘People of the Book’ (Jews and Christians) and among the Polytheists, will be in hell-fire, to dwell therein - for aye”. (Qur’an - 98:6)
“Wage War on the ‘People of the Book’, who do not accept the religion of Islam” (Qur’an - 9:29)
“Fight against them (the Jews and Christians)! Allah shall punish them AT YOUR HAND”!! (Qur’an 9:14)
“Enmity and hatred shall reign between us until ye believe in Allah alone” (Qur’an 60:4)
“Those who follow Muhammad are merciless to the unbelievers but kind to each other” (Qur’an 48:29)
“Make war on them (non-Muslims) until idolatry does not exist any longer and Allah’s religion reigns universally”. (Qur’an 8:39) (2:193)**
…I’m not trying to start anything, but can you possibly explain these in a way that actually can put the religion in a positive light? From my understanding, it basicly tells the “true” hardcore followers of Islam to stand up and fight against all that do not believe in their ways.
If I am misunderstanding, please explain, as we all know that scripture from ANY religious book can be interpreted in different ways. I just view these quotes as basicly straightforward. So if you really want to do your cause good, then now is your chance to explain this to us.
**Hadith Sahih Muslim (4363) "You (the Jews) should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle and I wish to expel you from this land (Arabia)
Muslim (4366) “I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslims.”
(Qur’an 48:29) “Those who follow Muhammad are merciless for the unbelievers but kind to each other.”
Qur’an (60:4) “Enmity and hatred will reign between us until ye believe in Allah alone.”
Qur’an (8:39) (2:193) “Make war on them until idolatory does not exist any longer and Allah’s religion reigns universally.”
Qur’an (9:123) “Fight the unbelievers in your surroundings, and let them find harshness in you.”
Qur’an (9:5) “Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them, capture and besiege them and prepare for them every kind of ambush.”
Qur’an (8:60) “Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies of Allah”.
Qur’an (5:72-73) "For he who believes in the Trinity, “the Fire will be his abode … a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemer.”**
…let’s really get this discussion underway, perhaps we all can learn something.
From what I know of Islam a lot of those quotes are actually misleading (for example non-believers is often taken no to refer to Christians and Jews). You have to be careful as their are alot of sites on the internet that wilfully misquote the Qu’ran for less than pure reasons.
I don’t see how you can complain about the first one though, isn’t that basically what Christians and all other religions believe about other denominations?
Yes, I understand that some of these could be misinterpreted, that is why I posted them for an actual Muslim to go over, one by one, to help spread some of the truth.
I’ve already seen it thank you, as I said, there are things in every “Holy” book that can be taken the wrong way. I just want to hear someone explain these, that is all.
Some of these however, are just seemingly blatently in your face about what they are to do. I can fully understand why a hardcore Muslim could have such strong feelings against us. I posted this only for an explanation, that is all, as I said…
…for us all to learn something, and to hear the side of Islam, from an actual Muslim’s point of view.
I have no doubt that any mosque, “masjid” is the actual word, would be more than happy for anyone to attend their Qur’an lessons. I hung around with muslims and in Masjids for two years while learning enough to Declare my Faith. Do expect to be gentlyinvited to Islam, but most follow the Quranic forbiddance of compulsion.
Is it acceptable for a non-muslim to greet a muslim with the “as salaam” greeting, or should it pretty much only be between muslims? I had a muslim friend tell me her parents would be touched if I did so, but I’m wondering if other muslims may not fel the same way.
Brent Lumpkin: Some of those passages have been discussed in earlier threads in GD and GQ. If I have time later, I’ll try to dig out some of them. Generally the argument over them boils down to a question of interpretation, with the “liberal” or “moderate” take being that the harshest of those ( especially the more aggressive passages of sura 9 ) were context specific declarations dealing with a particular historic situation ( the war against certain tribes towards the end of the Meccan-Medinan struggle ) and not intended as general commands.
There is a ongoing debate in the Muslim community ( theological and otherwise ) about the question of abrogation ( which verses are abrogated, if any are ) and application of verses - Suffice it to say that interpretation varies pretty widely, which is why you can have bloodthirsty fanatics and utter pacifists encapsulated in a single faith.
“Those who disbelieve (in Allah) among the ‘People of the Book’ (Jews and Christians) and among the Polytheists, will be in hell-fire, to dwell therein - for aye”. (Qur’an - 98:6)
If you pick that apart it talks of the unbelievers AMONG the People of the Book and the Polytheists. Not all of the people that fit those categories, For example, Muhammad was a believer among the Polytheists. There are also Quranic verses stating that Christians nd Jews who follow what was revealed to them will recieve their promised Reward.
Most of your other quotes must be understood in context. I suspect that the site you pasted them from, (AnsweringIslam?..) did not provide any context for clarification.
The early history of Islam was one of enduring hardship and persecution. It wasn’t until 12 years after the Prophet first began preaching that Allah gave permission to pick up arms. After the Muslims left Mecca for Madina, the Quraish rulersof Meecca, a kind of merchant cartel whose speciality was extorting as much money out of pilgrims to the kaaba, continued to harass and persecute the muslims, finally subverting their sworn allies, a Jewish trine called Qurayzu.
These are the Jews and Unbelievers that the commands to violence refer. Not all Jews, Christians, Pagans, or others for all time.
I will reread your post and respond bit by bit over the next couple of days. Be patient, as I don’t have the whole Qur’an memorized.
Errr, martin, where are you getting that interpretation of Mohammedan? (I feel I can speak with equal authority on this, as “Mohammedan” is neither an Arabic nor Islamic term.)
Neurotik: “Mohammedan” is an obsolete and possibly offensive term (AFAICT, it’s about akin to “negro”) for a Muslim. Look in some old books, and you’ll find Muslims casually called Mohammedans. Also, I believe it can refer to the early followers of Mohammed, before there was such a thing as a “Muslim”.
Probably a semantic game, but any follower of Muhammed ( after his relgious revelations ) is pretty much considered a convert to Islam and a Muslim by default by historians ( Muslim ones, anyway ), even if all of the tenets of the faith hadn’t yet been articulated fully.
The problem with the term ‘Mohammedan’ is that to some it implies a worship of Muhammed, which would be de facto heretical for a Muslim ( Muhammed is venerated, but not worshipped per se ).
I took my Shahada in a Sunni masjid, but I haven’t joined any “club” other than Islam.
Jihad means “Struggle” or “Striving” in the cause of Allah or Islam. Jihad is divided into two basic types.
The Greater Jihad is the day-to-day struggle to become a better person and win out over your animal nature. It is also the struggle to create a just, compassionate society.
The Lesser Jihad is when you take up arms in dire circumstances. War in Islam is strictly regulated and the only real reason for war is self-defense, or the defense of Islam or Muslims from attack.
“Drive them out as they drove you out” I’ll get the chapter and verse for ya another time.
Nope. No harassment or discrimination. I became a muslim after 9-11, this August to be precise. I had been studying casually before, and had a few muslim friends before the attacks. After 9-11, I felt the need to study more intensely and find out the Truth. It all seemed so wrong to me, and inconsistant with Islam as I had come to understand it through my reading.
The usual reaction is puzzlement. I din’t always dress up. and never in really obvious robes and turban. Usually I wear a skull cap and somewhat baggier clothes than current non-hiphop fashion prefers. I frequently don’t bother with the hat.
Good luck, pal. As a recent convert are you reeeeally sure that you are ready to field any and all questions? If you have lurked for any time, you should know that this can be a pretty rough crowd. I hope you’ve got some pretty thick skin…
That aside, you said
If that’s the case, why the big Hoo-Haa about the comments which sparked the rampage at the Miss World (Universe, Nebula, whatever) contest? It seems like speaking in anything less than fulsome praise about Muhammad (who was, as you aver, only a man) can get one in a world of hurt. If he’s just a guy, where’s the harm?
I mean, when Michaelangelo sculpted Moses (who was no slouch in the prophet department, either) with freaking horns on his head, the Jews didn’t put a burning automobile tire around his neck.
Hmmm… If someone sincerely believes that unbelivers will after death henceforth suffer eternally, and actually support the god who created and maintains such a system, I don’t see how that’s morally distinguishable from advocating violence against groups in life. While violent people trying to kill me in real life are of course a far more pressing concern for me (and one I take more seriously), I don’t necessarily see them as being morally worse than those who are just sad that I don’t accept their beliefs and thus will have to be cast into a gnashing of teeth.
Of course, sometimes it doesn’t seem like people REALLY take their beliefs seriously.
