OK…I’ll bite. How in the world did a wog limey 
get an appreciation for God’s game, ie baseball?
And whatever made you a Sox fan? :eek:
I kid. I really would like to know how you became a baseball fan.
(and I am a Cubs fan, so I have no reason to be critical of ANYBODY!)
That would be Ask The Muslim Guy, posted by Muslim Guy.
Then there was also, Ask a muslim guy by martin_ibn_martin, and an even earlier one (long before 9/11), Ask the Islamic guys by Zeeshan.
It’s called “Ra’s Baladdi”, which means “Peasant Dancing,” or “Country Dancing” Reason being that it was originally a rural village thing, rather than a genteel upper-class thing. Even nowadays, belly-dancing isn’t really considered a respectable profession for a lady. 
I have to confess I never heard of that one. I know it’s considerd rude in Greece, but not in any Arabic country I’m aware of.
No offense taken, ya godless Yank infidel
I got hooked on the great game when I was working a summer job in Houston a few years back. My boss at the time was a born-again baptist and a real nice guy, and he took me to see my first ever game at the Astrodome (the old one). It was love at first sight. As for why I picked the Sox, I naturally went for the Yankees’ greatest rivals, and I’ve always had a thing for underdogs anyway.
It really is a beautiful game, and sometimes I think that baseball and burgers are the only good things America ever gave the world
Most Iranians that I know will correct you very quickly if you call them an Arab. It’s nothing against Arabs. We are an entirely different group with our own culture and language.
Now on to my question. My mother is Iranian and I grew up in the United States. I had a lot of problems growing up trying to balance my eastern upbringing and my western surroundings. I’ve known several others who have had this same problem. Did you go through this also? If so, how did you (if you have) learn to balance it all out?
:smack: no wonder I couldn’t find it searching for “Arab Guy”. My bad.
One thing I see all too often is that people consider all Arabs or all Muslims as one homogeneous group. Obviously this is incorrect.
First, do you come from a Sunni or Shi’ite (or some other) tradition? How do you see the differences between them?
Second, what are the other important distinctions within the Arab world that we should be aware of?
Finally, a simple question. How should we bring peace and prosperity to the Middle East?
You’re right, of course. Iranians aren’t Arabs, and might be a bit put out if you labelled them as such, and that’s perfectly understandable. Thing is, you can’t really tell just by looking, so I think your best bet is to first ask what country someone comes from. If they say “Iran”, you can safely assume that they’re Persian rather than Arabic.
As for your question, yes I did have a little trouble balancing my Arab upbringing with my life here in the UK. I’ve never really had a problem with not eating pork or with not drinking, but it’s the social aspects which I’ve found hardest to reconcile.
High school was the toughest because I so desperately wanted to fit in and be accepted, but sometimes being accepted meant doing things that I didn’t feel right. I had a couple of girlfriends in High school, but I didn’t really date all that much, and at times it felt like everyone else was having sex and partying and being popular except me.
Then I moved on and had a great time in college. Those were pretty much my wildest years because I was living away from home without supervision for the first time. However “wild” is relative…even though I was going out to nightclubs about three nights a week, skipping classes and generally goofing off, I never once had any alcohol and I never did drugs. There was always a part of me that knew where the line was and never crossed it.
As I get older, it becomes a little easier for me to be Arab and British at the same time. Now that I have a clearer understanding of who I am and what’s important to me, I feel less pressure to conform. I know that I’ll always be more “Arabic” than “English”, and that’s because I took a good look at the values I was brought up with, compared them against what popular culture had to offer, and decided that they were better for me.
I still socialise and interact with my colleagues at work and all of that, and there will always been some pressure to fit in, but I know now that there will always be some things which I just don’t do, and I’m happy with that.
It gets easier with time.
I’m a Sunni, and a pretty run-of-the-mill, mainstream one at that. From what I understand, the differences between Sunni and Shi’i muslims were initially political rather than religious ones, centering on who should have been the Caliph after the death of the Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him). After the initial rift, however, the differences spread to religious practices and beliefs.
I’ve prayed side-by-side with Shi’i Muslims from Iran and have no problem with any of them, but some of the breakaway sects have moved so far away from mainstream Islamic thought as to be almost unrecognisable. For example, I understand that Ismaili Shi’ites believe in the divinity of one of the later Caliphs, and that’s something that verges on idolatry in the eyes of many mainstream Muslims.
Peace in the Middle East - I think the only way we’re going to see some stability and prosperity in the region is by getting rid of the corrupt regimes there now, and having some genuine democracies in their place. Many of these countries have plenty of natural resources, including agricultural wealth as well as oil, but as long as the corrupt regimes are in place, most of the revenue from those resources will go straight into the pockets of whoever’s in power and into the pockets of their cronies.
If a Middle-Eastern country became truly democratic, I think the wealth would find it’s way to the people, and that the standard of life would increase dramatically. Well-fed, well educated people with a legitimate and peaceful means of influencing their government are much less likely to fall into the trap of dissafection, frustration and poverty. By allowing the people to choose their leaders and have a real say, I really think you’d remove many of the causes of terrorism and extremism.
However, I don’t think that democracy can or should be imposed on these countries by a foreign power, and that includes Iraq. Any government installed by the US is not going to be regarded by the people as anything other than a puppet. Furthermore, I don’t think the US would ever allow a true democracy to exist in Iraq outside of the parameters they impose, reason being that they cannot risk having the Iraqi people vote an anti-American or theocratic party into power.
The US hasn’t gone to all this trouble just to create a democracy that it couldn’t control. They’ll do their utmost to ensure that whoever ends up in power is sympathetic to US interests. Furthermore, I might even go so far that the same applies across the whole region. A free, stable, strong and independent Middle-Eastern democracy is probably the last thing the US wants, so as unfortunate as it sounds, it’s probably going to be a long while before we see any.
Bib, I like you, so I’m not going to go totally postal on you for the bolded bits of your quote above. We do not at all, under any circumstances believe that any of the later Caliphs were divine. At all. What we do believe, like all other Shia Muslims is that `Ali was appointed as the Prophet’s (PBUH) successor to guide the people in their spiritual lives, at Ghadir-e-Khum, just after the Farewell Hajj, where the Prophet publically announced:
We believe in an unbroken line of hereditary Imams from `Ali to the present day. Yes, we believe that the Imams are imbued with the same spiritual ‘light’ that the Prophet was imbued with. That does not make them divine hower. We also believe that through daily prayer and meditation, anyone can become imbued with this light. That doesn’t make that person divine however either.
In that case, I sincerely apologise, and thanks for setting me straight. As I say, I’m by no means a scholar of either Islamic theology or history, so my comment was made in ignorance rather than malice. Hoewever, I do remember reading that at least one Shi’ite sect believed in the divinity of one of the Caliphs, and I suppose I got them confused with the Ismailis. My bad…
Hi Bib,
What does it feel like to read posters on this board who continually insult your heritage and religion by insisting that Islam is nothing but a bloodthirsty doctrine of hate?
It’s tough. Really bloody tough and really frustrating. Some days when I see another “Islam is eeeevil” thread, I don’t even bother opening it because I know it will the same old bile re-heated. Other days I’ll see someone spout something so ignorant and so blatantly wrong, that I can’t stop myself from stepping and calling them on it. Most of the time it doesn’t do much good because the poster has already made their mind up that Muslims are really just barbaric trash. But even though I know my effort wil usually be wasted, I’d feel terribly guilty if I didn’t at least try.
I suppose what burns me up most is how utterly different we are from people’s perceptions of us. Many of the bigoted remarks are coming from people who’ve never taken the time to sit down and have a conversation with an actual Muslim. I know that if some of these people could spend a couple of weeks in my home and in my community, just seeing how we lead our daily lives, I’m sure that they’d start seeing us as human beings rather than bloodthirsty animals.
When I try to explain that we aren’t violent and that we’re just regular people, some smart-arse will always remark that we’re not “real” Muslims being we aren’t following our bloodthirsty religion properly…
I tell ya, there just aren’t enough roll-eyes smilies for that one…
Tell me Bibliovore, whom do you think are to blame for the negative perception of Arabs in general and Moslems in particular? And further who do you think are mainly to blame for the sad state of the Arab world today?
Let me guess, would you answer “Arabs”?
Why would you guess when you can simply ask? But this is thread is not Ask the Dane. However should you ask me who’s to blame for whatever general perception Danes have (for those who’ve heard of us that is), or why Denmark is in such a condition as it is. My answer would be: ours.
so your answer is Arabs then.
you wouldn’t apportion any responsibility to media who mostly report negative aspects of current events as they make better headlines?
You wouldn’t apportion any blame to actions of other countries governments who will play up stereotypes of your country to support their foreign policies?
Y’know, I read your words about Muslim respect for women, etc., and I take them with a grain of salt, Bibliovore. Because I have to balance them against all the shit that I know goes on against women in the Arab world: the honor killings, the “get in the back of the bus” stuff, the religious police in Saudi Arabia who can beat women who are behaving “indecently” the way women are forbidden to show themselves on the street without a male escort in some societies. I know not all Arabic societies are the same in this respect: Saudi Arabia and Iran would probably be about the worst, with Egypt being more liberal. But I think most Western women would regard Egypt as oppressive if they had to live under the strictures imposed on Muslim women there.
So, when I hear a Muslim guy talk about how much he respects and honors women, I just don’t believe it. It’s like a white Southerner in the U.S. during the 50s talking about how blacks are treated equally as whites are, just … separately. I wouldn’t believe a word he was saying either. He’d probably also say that black people (OK, in the 50s he’d probably say ‘niggers’) are OK so long as they know their place and act right, and I get the feeling it’s the same in the Arab world WRT women in many countries – women are to be respected and honored, so long as they behave properly. They get outta line and it just might be honor killing time, just as blacks who got out of line in the South of the 50s might get lynched.
Now I know you live in England and have a different viewpoint than a Middle Eastern homeboy, but do you see why I am cynical? And what’s your response?
I’m going to jump in here, and say this much. Islam advocates, nay, demands the utmost respect for women. Some cultures however, do not. You’re confusing what the religion demands with what some misguided individuals interpret as ‘religion’ in an attempt to justify their own behaviour. Doesn’t just happen with Islam.
Why do you want to discuss this with me? This is not my thread and as much as I love to hear myself speak I doubt Bib would look very favourably upon me using his tread to expound my views. However yes, I believe the main responsibility for the state of the Arab world rests solidly on Arab shoulders. And further that it is precisely this tendency to look everywhere else but in the mirror when placing responsibility for own mismanagement and incompetence that is the first major obstacle to moving beyond and creating the wealthy and prosperous region that the land is so capable of supporting.