Bibliovore:
You advocate true democracies as part of a solution to the cycle of violence that plagues the near and middle east, yet the current attempt by America and it’s allies to do install a democracy is viewed as nothing but a puppet state. What, in your view, do the people of this region really want of the west? To leave them alone?
:smack: I forgot to ask my questions!
Bib, did your parents have an arranged marriage? Do they plan on doing so for you? What is your view on the whole thing?
Do you travel often to the Middle East? (I’m sorry, I don’t recall if you said what country you are, ethnically, from)
Don’t worry, no offense taken. 
No it’s not your imagination. Like the famous Italian penchant for bottom-pinching, Arabs from certain countries have a terrible reputation for ogling. The worst offenders are usually those from Gulf, and Saudis in particular. In a way, it’s not very surprising considering that where they come from, most, if not all women, are swathed in flowing black robes from head to toe. When they get to a country where shorts and t-shirts are the norm, they’re practically overwhelmed by the veritable sea of female flesh on display (relatively speaking).
Arabs from more liberal countries like Lebanon and Egypt are more used to that sort of thing and barely bat an eyelid.
Tell you what, next time you catch one of them at it, flutter your eyelashes at him and blow him a kiss. With your looks you’ll probably make the poor guy’s head explode - that’ll teach 'em!
Regarding the Ra’ Baleedi - there’s a debate in the bellydancing community as to whether it should be called belly dance or raq sharki (That’s how I usually see it spelled). IIRC, raq sharki roughly translated to “eastern dance” and makes no sense to me. Would it make sense to you?
BTW, I am familiar with the word Baleedi - we have baleedi dresses and baleedi rhythms (although I usually see it spelled beledi or balady). Is that representative of how it is pronounced?
And how would I say thank you in arabic?
Al-Jazeera is usually considered the most balanced and mainstream news outlet, as they aren’t afraid to run stories that are critical of Arab Governments as well. They broadcast in Arabic, but they have a great website in english at:
Yup, the left hand is considered unclean because that’s the one we use in the bathroom. Don’t shake hands with your left, and don’t offer gifts with it either. You won’t mortally offend anyone if you do, but it might cause an awkward moment.
Again, not a mortal insult, but it’s considered disrespectful to show people the soles of your feet, especially to elders. And when entering an Arab or Muslim home, it’s usual to take your shoes off.
This is a long-standing tradition that is slowly dying out. It relates mostly to the Arabian Penninsula and the Gulf than to other Arab countries, and originated amongst the desert tribes. A host must feed and protect his guest for three days and make him feel like a King. Men are judged by their generosity and hospitality, so it’s a big deal. After those three days are over, however, the host is no longer obliged to continue feeding and entertaining his guest, and it’s generally understood that once the thre days are up, it’s time for the guest to say farewell.
Never heard of this one, to be honest. Sorry.
This is a pretty old one and has more to do with the form of expression than with insult. A man’s wife used to be referred to as his “family”, rather than just his wife. Not at all common any more, and I’m not sure which regions used to do this.
Hope you don’t mind if I sneak in and nitpick just a tad :)…
Actually most Arabs are descended from indigenous folks as well. The normative definition of “Arab” would be those who speak Arabic as their first language and Arabic as a language of empire spread even faster than Islam. There is little to no real ethnic difference between a Copt and a Muslim Arab ( by the way while Copts may not like being called Arabs, insomuch as most speak Arabic as their first language I would tend to lump them into the same group when speaking of Arab populations in a genertal sense ) - both are descended primarily from pre-Islamic populations, the difference being whose ancestors converted or not.
Which isn’t to say their wasn’t Arab immigration. There was a fair bit and an Arab from Libya might be a little closer to Bedouin origin than your average Arab in, say, Iraq. But it is all just a matter of degree. Your average Arab in North Africa undoubtedly have some Berber heritage ( let alone a smidgen of Vandal, a dash of Ibero-Roman, a sprinkling of Phoenician, and a tidbit of Jew - indeed there were a number of Judaized Berbers of ancient antecedent ) and it is probable that more than a few Berbers have a little bit of Arab ( marriages between incoming Bedouin and Berber tribes were not all that uncommon ). For example there was a lot of Berber immigration into al-Andalus, but over generations many became Arabic speakers - then the Moors were expelled you had a flood of these mixed Arabic-speaking, but Arab, Berber and Iberian origined folks returing to North Africa.
My parents always just naturally assumed that I’d end up marrying an Arab, and although that’s what they’d prefer, they never put any particular pressure on me to do so. As far as they’re concerned, the religion is more important than the nationality or ethnicity, and they’d be happy to see me married to a good God-fearing Muslim woman, regardless of whether she whether she was English or South African or Pakistani or whatever.
I’ve dated lots of non-Muslims, even though casual dating is kind of frowned upon in our culture. My parents knew it happened and never really said anything about it, because they knew that it was hard enough for me as it was. They just kind of accepted that they couldn’t reign me in too much.
I still don’t know if my dating days are over, but when they are, I’m pretty certain I want to marry a Muslim. According to the Quran, I can marry Christians and Jews as well because they’re monotheistic faiths, but that would make it harder to raise my kids as Muslims, and I know my family would be disappointed. Marrying anyone who wasn’t a Muslim, Jew, or Christian would pretty much scandalise them, and I figure i’ve given them enough white hairs already. 
Bib, first, thanks for the thread. I have learned much already. I’m pretty ignorant about Islam, so excuse me if my questions are basic.
1- Beyond the daily/weekly observences, what are the rituals involved? Is there an equivalent to Christian confirmation / Jewish bar mitzvah? I guess what I’m asking is, what are the milestones in an Islamic man’s life?
2- I know this is an unfair question (because I couldn’t answer it about my own religion), but are there any books you would recommend to someone that wanted to learn more about Islam?
See, that had nothing to do with being an Arab. That pretty much describes my high school experience as well (except for the part about having girlfriends, that would have required actually talking to a girl).
In one of your earlier posts you mentioned cous-cous and Libyan pasta. Where do you stand on the burning “Is cous-cous pasta?” question?
Didn’t you start a thread last year about coming to the US to see a baseball game? Did you ever make it here?
I made a stab at a reading list here ( but it hardly should be taken as definitive and I’d probably revise it a bit were a redo it today - which I won’t ):
…were I to redo it today… :smack:
Bibliovore:
You advocate true democracies as part of a solution to the cycle of violence that plagues the near and middle east, yet the current attempt by America and it’s allies to do install a democracy is viewed as nothing but a puppet state. What, in your view, do the people of this region really want of the west? To leave them alone?
Yes, I’d say that sounds about right. I genuinely feel that democracy would be better than the state of affairs we have now, but we have to get there on our own. I don’t think you can impose it externally and expect it to work. We’d obviously still want to trade with the west and maintain diplomatic relations, and we don’t want to be completely ignored, but when it comes to our internal politics, just leave us alone and let us get on with it.
Similarly, it’s imperative that the West stop propping up the petty tyrants we have in place now, because that severely hinders any grass-roots efforts for change. I’m not saying that’s the only reason these guys have lasted so long, but it’s certainly a major one. If the West really wanted to help spread Democracy in the region, it would stop helping these guys, back off, and let us sort it out. It might take years before we build our own democracies, but when we get there we need to be able to say that we did it ourselves
Finally, what we really hate is when we laboriously build our own democracies, only to have them dismantled by the US and replaced with a puppet dictatorship, as happened to Iran in the 60’s.
No, my parents met through mutual friends who were getting engaged at the time. My dad’s friends told him that my Mother was out of his league and that he shouldn’t bother, but he wasn’t about to give up just like that
My father passed away a while ago (God rest his soul), but my parents never believed in arranged marriages, and never for a moment planned one for me. The whole “arranged marriage” thing is another one of those cultural artifacts that often get confused with religion. Just to clarify, Islam makes it clear that a man and a Woman cannot be married without their mutual consent. Marriages cannot be forced or coerced.
I haven’t ever heard of arranged marriages amongst Arabs, to be honest, and would guess that they are far more common in India and Pakistan than they are in the Middle East. However my understanding is that the practice is slowly dying out even in these regions.
I used to travel regularly to Egypt to visit my ex-fiancee, but ever since we broke up, I’ve been using my holidays to visit all the other places I’ve been dying to see. I’m not Egyptian, but I don’t want to give too much away…
“Raqs Sharqi” wouldn’t be a very common name for it, and people might not know what you’re referring to, but “Raqs Baladi” would be more widely recognised. And “Baladi” or “Bellady” is closer to the correct pronunciation that “Baleedi”.
The most common way to say “Thank you” in Arabic is “Shook-Run”. “Shook” as in “I shook his hand”, and “Run” as in “I’m just going to run down to the store”, so it’s pronounced pretty much as it’s spelled.
A MUCH more scholarly and thorough answer than I would ever have been able to provide, so thanks Tamerlane! My knowledge of my own cultural and religious history is woefully inadequate, so I was kinda hoping you’d drop by.
Ramadhan is the Holiest month of the lunar Muslim Calendar, as it it is the month that we believe the Quran was first revealed to the Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) via the Archangel Gabriel. Muslims are required to fast from dawn to dusk for the entire month, and that means no food or drink of any kind (including water), no sex, and no smoking. Muslims are also urged to refrain from swearing, arguing, lying, or slandering, as a harsh word said in anger counts as breaking your fast. It’s not just aboutthe food, though - it’s the holiest, most spiritual month of the year, and we’re supposed to make every conceivable effort to better ourselves. It’s a time for Family and community, for repentance, for laying aside grudges and for forgiveness.
The Hajj is the pilgrimage to Mecca, and while we’re required to go at least once, we can go as many times as we like. Anyone who is not physically able to go can sponsor the Hajj of another able-bodied Muslim who cannot afford to go. In this way, both of their Pilgrimages will be counted.
Very simple, non-inflammatory question: Could you give me some common Arab male first names that aren’t derived from h-m-d or b-d-l, and some common Arab last names? Thanks in advance.
List of common Arabic male first names (in no particular order):
Omar, Adel, Hamza, Ibrahim, Yousef, Younis, 'Eesa, Moosah, Ameen, Khalid, Hazim, Hani, Annas, Samir, Hossam, Layth, Kareem, Amr, Rasheed
Last names vary much more greatly according to country, and we don’t really hav any “Smiths” or “Joneses”, but here are a few:
Al-Aswad, Rushdie, Al-Noor, Al-Malik, Al-Kareem, Mubarak, Al-Hameed, Al-Hadadeen, Al-Misrahti.
These questions come in the context of seeing how different groups handle ties to “the old country,” as it were.
You mentioned in your first post that, although you have a strong loyalty to the UK, you think of yourself first as an Arab and a Muslim. Do you think you might ever want to move permanently to an Arab country (e.g., back home) some time in the future?
When you have children, do you plan on taking them to see your relatives in various countries frequently so as to expose them thoroughly to Arab cultures? Or would you consider it more important that your children grow up as good Muslims, thus leaving them to be culturally more British?