[God]Whose yo Daddy[/God]
Do some religious people really act out their lives based souly (hehe) on how it will effect their afterlife? How shallow is that? I once heard a person state that they wanted to give some money to charity because God would look favorably upon her. I just thought that was sad.
I’m athiest. I think that some things are right and some are wrong. (If you need more explanation on how that’s possible, I think we need a new thread.) I think that coincidences happen sometimes. I think nothing ‘supernatural’ exists.
I hope these are fairly typical. However note there will be people who don’t believe in God, but do believe in 4-leaf clovers being lucky. I find this as rediculous as I find a lot of thiesm, but they are athiest.
Did I ever tell you about the time I was accidentally killed?
[sub]The point being that the amazing story may remain untold if it doesn’t involve survival[/sub]
Honest question here… what is the atheist explanation for how nearly all of my prayers are answered? I mean it seems too improbable that the things I pray for would be a coincidence…
Now I know that some are going to say that if was nearly all and not all then it must have been coincidence… my response: it is not for me to determine what God’s motivations are for answering some prayers…
Alright, SN, pray for world peace now. Or to end world hunger now. Then get back to us.
I don’t mean to hijack but I have a question for atheists somewhat related to the first OP’s question.
You’re on your deathbed. Maybe it’s a hospital bed. You feel the strength drain from your limbs and your grasp on consciousness weakens. You know now that in a few moments you will be swallowed up by an eternal abyss. There will be nothing more. No more input. No more consciousness. How will you cope with the fear of knowing that you are finally in a position where you know your time on earth is very, very finite?
Please note that I am not asking you how you think you will cope with the fact of your own death. I am asking how you think you will be able to cope with the fear of knowing that your final moments on this earth will truly be the last things you will ever experience.
Please don’t think that I, as a theist, have the first idea how I will cope with my final moments. Frankly, the idea that I’m inevitably going to die terrifies me.
Hicks: I don’t really concern myself too much with my inevitable death, for a coupla reasons [other than the obvious “I’m young, and I’m never gonna die” ;)]:
**robertliguori[/]: Even if I did pray for world peace, how would you know that God wouldn’t grant it? Let’s say I did… I think he just might; it might be five minutes of world peace, and that would fulfill my prayer wouldn’t it? or let’s say I prayed “God I pray that you will grant the entire world eternal peace.” God probably would… some time… just because God doesn’t do what you mean to pray, doesn’t mean God won’t answer your prayer. Additionally, since most theists view God as a parental figure of humans, did your parents give you absolutely everything you asked for? I am sure they didn’t. And what was a common answer? “Because I said so.”
God answers prayers, sometimes God just says no.
** You’re on your deathbed. Maybe it’s a hospital bed. You feel the strength drain from your limbs and your grasp on consciousness weakens. You know now that in a few moments you will be swallowed up by an eternal abyss. There will be nothing more. No more input. No more consciousness. How will you cope with the fear of knowing that you are finally in a position where you know your time on earth is very, very finite? **
Three years ago I was in a freak accident. It was a dark night, I was driving about 65 mph down a deserted back highway, I ran over a blown tire I couldn’t see on the road, and steel wire from the tire (I later learned) wrapped around my drive shaft and sent the truck spinning out of control. It flipped twice and would have gone over about a 5 foot embankment, very possibly killing me, had a well placed crepe myrtle bush not stopped it’s motion.
Okay, the whole thing lasted about 2 seconds, but it seemed a lot longer. My life didn’t flash in front of my eyes, but I did have an incredibly surreal thought of “Well, I guess this is it… I’m not immortal.” (I think to an extent all of us somehow think of ourselves as immortal until we have reason not to since obviously we’ve nothing empirical to base the notion that we can “not be” on, but I digress.)
Anyway, as I was lying on my side in a flipped vehicle, totally unharmed save for a cut on my hand small enough to hide with a small band aid, I remember thinking “this could have been it- I should feel something moving and powerful and spiritual… but I don’t”.
Coincidence: ordinarily, running over a piece of blown tire would have resulted in a bump, but I hit the piece in so precise an angle and velocity that it caused a piece of exposed cable to “attack” my car. As with the OP’er’s mother in law, this was a “bad coincidence… bad! Stay!”
Coincidence: Less than a quarter mile away from where I went off the road is swamp. Less than a quarter mile on the other side is a very steep drop off that would be certain death. As with the man coming for aspirin, this was a “good coincidence”.
I think not being injured was less coincidental than the fact I was wearing my seatbelts.
But no, I hate to admit that the “near death”-edness of this didn’t make me any more or less sure in my atheism than I was before, though certainly my Christian relatives and friends entered a thanksgiving prayer jag when they saw pictures of my truck.
The hardest part to me of atheism is not contemplating my own mortality, which while I’m certainly not anxious to die I don’t have any more fear of death than the average person, but the mortality of people I love. To know that I will never be able to reconcile or make peace with my father, who died thinking I hated him (he was right), bothers me when I let it, as does the fact that the brilliant but troubled young friend I lost to AIDS probably simply ceased to exist other than for a few dollars in leftover chemicals also bothers me, and the knowledge that Anne Frank and however many billions like her whose names are lost to history all died and their killers basically got away with it is gross and infuriating and I can understand why people believe in things for which there is no proof rather than accept this, but like Eve in the Garden I’d rather have knowledge and truth than comfort.
OTOH, my lack of belief in a world outside of this one means that to me, and I suspect many other atheists, it’s all the more important that we make this existence as good as possible. The reason I and I suspect others take offense at the “why aren’t you a murderer?” question (I know that the question wasn’t meant to be offensive, incidentally, but it’s rather like asking a gay male couple “which one of you is the woman?” in terms of shudders and groans) is because it’s the reverse of the actual situation: because I don’t believe there’s a divine editor who’s going to ultimately make everything come out all right, I am LESS likely to interfere with the life and liberties of others than I would be if I were a theist. Perhaps if I asked you as a believer (and I’m not picking on you and I don’t mean this offensively) “Your religion teaches that all sins can be forgiven and that people who die in a state of grace go to heaven, so why don’t you rob and burglarize and murder your enemies, then just ask God for forgiveness, because that way you’d have money and anybody you killed is going to heaven anyway” then you’ll semi-sympathize.
I hope this hasn’t been half as coherent as I think it has… maybe that wreck did knock something loose.
In that case, this atheist’s explanation of why your prayers are always answered is that your beliefs about prayer and what it means for a prayer to be “answered” are structured such that it is impossible for them to be proven wrong.
First man: Say, why do you have a banana in your ear?
Second man: Eh? What’s that?
First man: I said WHY DO YOU HAVE A BANANA STUCK IN YOUR EAR?
Second man: Oh, that…it’s to keep the crocodiles away.
First man: Huh? There are no crocodiles within thousands of miles of here!
Second man: See? It’s working!
(The above post is directed at Soup Nazi.)
With regard to all of the earlier posts about ethics… Who determines what is rigth and wrong? Universally I mean… or is everything relative? for instance on an island where cannibalism is acceptable behavior, Americans see it as wrong, while the islanders don’t.
(I understand this is hypothetical)-> If the world consisted of 100 people, and 50 believed murder was morally wrong, and the other 50 believed murder was not morally wrong, who is to say who is right?
If the world consisted of 100 people, and 50 believed murder was morally wrong, and the other 50 believed God commanded them to slay the infidels, who is to say who is right?
Long answer: Read the ethics thread.
Short answer: Do unto others as you would have other do unto you, and all that jazz. [When this causes a conflict with somebody else, then you must attempt to first resolve the conflict through peacable means (e.g. discourse), since you’re probably not going to be able to prove a priori that your position is the (only) correct one.]
Everything is relative, though this does not mean that (some degree of) objectivity is impossible. Note that everything is relative even if there exists some Ultimate Arbiter (e.g. God) who can infallibly determine Right from Wrong, since no human can prove that they speak for (or can infallibly interpret the messages of) the Ultimate Arbiter (what with humans being fallible etc. etc.).
Wow! Somebody happened upon her in the middle of the night in a public place. Imagine that…What are the odds?! 5/1?
Unfortunately, there are probably dozens that don’t have this happen, and end up dead. Nobody gets to ask them their opinion of what they think of divine intervention.
JZ
Perhaps it was their time to go…
No, God probably just didn’t like them.
Any decision about ethics must be personal, even religiously motivated ones. How do you know which religion is the most ethically correct one? Each person is ultimately his or her own moral authority, even if that authority is exercised only in choosing which religious path to follow.
When people ask me what death will be like without any gods, I just ask them “What was it like before you were born?”
One thing I really really really really really don’t like about (some) Christians is the way they talk out from both sides of their mouths.
If you don’t die, it’s divine intervention. If you do, it’s God’s will. Is there anything you haven’t covered yet?