BytopianDream, hey, thanks for catching that one for me! You’re much more eloquent at explaining these things than I am. And anyone who thinks you write obtusely concerning religion ought to be made to read a couple of chapters of Shoghi Effendi, to get a little perspective, eh? Might I also point out that Theravada Buddhism is a sect of Buddhism, not what Buddha Himself taught. Which goes further to illustrate the point that, unless provisions are made to the contrary, after a Manifestation of God dies, people will distort that Prophets’ teachings for their own purposes.
Thanks for starting this thread.
My great-aunt was Baha’i, but the last law quoted above never came up. Is that really a tenet of the faith? And is there any explanation as to why?
Unless it is ceremonial like some laws of kosher.
Regards,
Shodan
Shodan, this is an actual law of the faith, although it occupies one tiny little line in the 'Aqdas. The first line of paragraph 106 in the Holy book reads “It hath been enjoined upon you to pare your nails,” then goes on to talk about staying clean and bathing regularly. I myself have fairly long fingernails, but the way I read this, it mean to keep your nails neat, not ragged. Therefore, I don’t feel like I’m sinning by keeping my nails long (I could provide you with a list of the ways I do sin, but I won’t 
. At any rate, I don’t suppose it’s one of those laws that occupies most Baha’is minds a whole lot. Here in America, at least, personal hygiene is such that I was pretty much in compliance with the Baha’i laws before I had even heard of the faith.
I will say this: until just a few years ago (maybe less than 10 years), the Kitab-i-Aqdas was not translated into English. Therefore, the Baha’is of the Western world had only the Synopsis and Codification, which outlined and highlighted the laws, and that was about it. Anything that wasn’t included in the S&C, Western Baha’is were not beholden to at that time. I just looked in my S&C, and couldn’t find anything about the trimming of the nails. It might not be in there. Therefore, your aunt may not even have known about this.
Thanks for your response.
Can I ask what is involved in a Declaration?
Regards,
Shodan
Theravada adheres to the original Buddhist scriptures (Tipitaka) and teachings in their strictest form, and draws its sources from the original sanga. The cause of division within Buddhism had much to do with what might be called the fundamentalist restrictions placed on the faith by the Theravadan school of thought (hence the latter Mahayana (“greater vehicle”) movement’s derisive nickname for Theravada: Hinayana or “lesser vehicle”).
As for what the Buddha himself taught, all that survives is the second-hand accounts preserved the old Pali scriptures. In the 3rd great Buddhis council in 3rd century BCE, the split between the conservative Theravada sect, and what would become Mahanyana, was essentially complete.
The Buddha himself made no mention of bodhisatvas, and probably would have found the entire concept absurd. The Mahayana movement considered the ideal of the arhat to be too limited and self-centered, but the concept of bodhisatvas, expounded in a weath of new sutras not derived in any way from the orignal Buddha, is a radical reinterpretation of the Buddha’s goals of ending suffering, and it’s not unlikely the historical Sidhartha Gottama would have rejected it witout hesitation.
Where do you get your ideas about “what the Buddha himself” taught?
Oh, tell me a story, please!
It has occurred to me, norenew, that your rejection of Theravada as teaching “what the Buddha Himself” orginialy taught may have something to do with my statements about God. I stand by those assertions. While the Buddha did acknowledge the existence of devas, and even stated some could be helpful in showing humankind the way of the dharma, he rejected utterly the idea of a supreme God as a creator and protector. Infact, the entire concept is a manifestation of samsara, and the existence of devas, or any other individual selves, is a product of the plague of samsara. The final goal of buddhahood, as taught by Siddhartha himself, was annihilation, and people were as or more likely than devas to achieve this state. Gods are NOT the way to salvation (meaning, loss of self); dharma is the only way, and dharma is NOT God. Period. Anyone who claims otherwise is free to do so, but they have a very different interpretation of Buddhist thought than what the original Buddha had.
Loopydude, I plead ignorance to much of what Buddha taught, please forgive me for that. It was my own little assumption that TB was a splinter group of Buddhism. I will have to talk to a friend of mine who converted from Buddhist to Baha’i a few years back before I can sufficiently address your questions. Of course, it’s more than possible that we will never come to an agreement on this, and that’s okay, too (at least it’s okay with me, and I hope it’s okay with you).
Well, Baha’is aren’t big on ritual and stuff by and large, so not much is always involved. There are Declaration cards from the National Spiritual Assembly. They are a little larger than a post card. If one wishes to become a Baha’i, one would go to the nearest Local Spiritual Assembly or registered group, and ask for a Declaration card. The card asks for basic information like name, age, dob, the number of the LSA or registered group one is registering under, etc. Just above the signature line is a little blurb to the effect that one accepts Baha’u’llah as a Manifestation of God, and agrees to do their best to follow the laws and precepts of the faith. After the new believer signs, a Baha’i in the group signs as a witness, and the card is mailed off to the NSA. The NSA then sends a welcome package to the new believer, and there you are! Pretty simple, really. Sometimes, Declarations are accompanied by celebrations, sometimes not. I, myself, made my Declaration at the celebration of the Ascension of Baha’u’llah. My oldest daughter made hers at a Baha’i retreat, and someone even baked her a cake!
ShibbOleth, okay, but just remember, you asked for it! 
About nine years ago, my husband and kids (only two kids at the time) and I moved out here to western Maryland (from the Baltimore suburbs). One of the first people I met out here was a Baha’i, and she was so nice! I knew she taught the Baha’i kids’ classes out here. After being here for a time, my two girls decided they wanted to start going to church. They started attending Sunday school classes with some friends of theirs at an Assembly of God church. After a few weeks, the youngest one (she was about 5 at the time) started coming home from Sunday school scared and upset, because she was a sinner and destined to burn in hell. Well, I wasn’t sure what church was supposed to be, but I was pretty sure it wasn’t supposed to make a five-year-old so frightened that she had trouble sleeping at night! I knew from my Baha’i friend that the Baha’i faith was gentler, and asked her if my kids could start going to Baha’i kids’ classes with her. They started attending, and my friend even gave them a little chilrens’ book of Baha’i prayers. I started investigating the faith through them, and even attended a few firesides, but felt no great need to join a new religion. About a year after my kids started attending these classes, I got a really bad kidney stone infection. Wound up in the hospital with a temperature of 104.7f. In fact, at night, it spiked to over 105 a few times! I was so sick that I didn’t know how sick I was! During that hospital stay, I did a lot of praying. I didn’t pray for God to spare my life, but rather for God to let me know if I was supposed to be a Baha’i. I spent over a week in the hospital, but less than a week after I got out of the hospital, I woke up one morning, and just simply didn’t wonder any more. I just knew. That evening, I called my friend to tell her. It just so happened that it was the night before the Ascension of Baha’u’llah, and she said if I wanted to go to that celebration with her (at 4AM :eek: ), that I could make my Declaration right then. I did it just like that, and have never regretted it. I don’t know what path my children will choose, but I believe I have chosen the right path for myself.
The funny thing is, when I lived outside of Baltimore, there were no less than 10 LSAs within 20 miles of me, and I had never heard of the Baha’i faith. I move out to the middle of nowhere, where there are, like, 8 practicing adult Baha’is, and bam! It happens. Life is funny.
Isn’t Ba’hai essentially liberal Islam?
The smart-ass answer would be “yes, in essentially the same way that Christianity is liberal Judaism”. 
Luckily for you, I’m not a smart-ass (well, not always). No, Baha’i is not “liberal Islam”. Islam was brought to the earth by Mohammad. Does it have a number of things in common with Islam? Yes. It also has a number of things in common with Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, and Buddhism. In fact, that’s kind of the point. We’re more alike than we are different, but we’re so busy nit-picking our differences that we can’t learn to get along.
Let’s take a look at some of the well-known aspects of Islam and compare them with Baha’i. Muslims pray five times a day, facing Mecca. Baha’is have one daily obligatory prayer, and yes, we do face East (in America, at least) for saying it. Muslims have a period of fasting, called Ramadan. Baha’is have a period of fasting (called the Fast). Devout Muslims have certain styles and types of clothing that they wear to denote their faith. Baha’is have no special clothing. We may wear a nine-pointed star or a piece of jewelry with a special Baha’i symbol if we wish, but nothing of the sort is required. Muslims are required to make pilgrimage to Mecca. Baha’is are also required to make pilgrimage, but of course our destination is different, and we are excused from doing so if to do so would cause hardship for us or our family. I can’t address the burial laws, because I’m not familiar with Islam’s burial laws. Muslims believe that women are the property of men, and must dress very discreetly so as not to stir up excitement. Baha’is believe that men and women are equal, and that in a household composed of a man and a woman, we should use the Baha’i principles of consultation to reach agreement. Interestingly, though, in a household where only one of the adults is Baha’i, if there is a disagreement, the Baha’i is supposed to bow to the will of the non-Baha’i, in the interest of maintaining unity.
Needless to say, a lot of religions have obligatory prayers (and special rules for engaging in those prayers), special styles of dress, Pilgrimages and fasting. Certainly Baha’i was different enough from Islam that, during it’s early days, the precepts got Baha’u’llah in a lot of trouble with the authorities!
If you had a thought or idea of similarities that I did not sufficiently address, please do let me know, and I’ll tell you what I think.
Salaam aleikum norinew,
I’ve read this thread with interest, since it is an issue I’m only very roughly (very very roughly) familiar with.
But now I need to make a few corrections regarding your description of Islam and what it in your view entails.
Not at all. Islam is the renewal of the Message that was given by God to humanity previously by means of all the other prophets = Islam was not a “new” religion. Any Muslim will tell you that he takes Islam as meaning submission (to God) which is what people have done since humanity was created.
In fact clothing has as only purpose to furfill the command of modesty for both men and women. Only as such it has relation with the religion.
Following in this certain hadith has nothing to do with the commands of Al Qur’an, but with following the tradition of observing what is perceived as being the sunna of Muhammed.
If I dress according the tradition of my country, outsiders would take that immediately as if I “out” myself with this as being Muslim while in fact it has nothing to do with that, but with me giving a personal preference to wear my traditional dress. Which I do prefer when I am at home. I don’t do it when I am in the West because I don’t feel the need to stand out and attrack attention because of the way I dress. (Doing so would be even the clear opposite of modesty).
You are not required to do so unless you can afford it and it does not damage your health, your family’s wellbeing etc…
I’m running off now to bring this brandnew revelation to my wives and give them the surprize of their life.
Which is also required for Muslim men.
Which is one of the clear commands in Al Qur’an, but unfortunately also among the most violated, in a variety of ways in a variety of societies and circumstances.
Which is no surprize since there is a long standing tradition in Islam (and it is probably as old as the time right after the death of Muhammed) that Muhammed was the last prophet.
Next to this your religion declares Jesus (and as I can understand from what you write: all prophets including Muhammed) to have been both man and God.
You don’t have to say much more to have convinced Muslims against you 
Salaam. A
Aldeberan, I’m very appreciative of your explanations of your faith; I fear that these misconceptions I’ve held are quite common, but value the fighting of ignorance, even (especially) if the ignorance is my own.
Well, it’s OK insofar as anyone is entitled to their own ignorance if they value it. I know that comes across as harsh, but I don’t mean it to be; I have a difficult time expressing myself in nuanced language, and that causes much consternation, I have learned.
I majored in religious studies undergrad., so I basically had to read a lot of translated source material, like the Bible (Hebrew and N.T.), the Qur’an, the Tripitakas, plus many selections from the Vedas, Upanishads, Baghavad Gitas, etc. Given that background, I would think that any Baha’i theologian should have at least a working knowledge of all these texts, as well as a bunch more, since the Baha’i faith, if I read things aright, draws from the Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, and Buddhist traditions (in no particular order), to name just a few. On top of that, the Baha’i theologian should also be reasonably familiar with all of the theological traditions of all the faiths these scriptures inform. That’s a pretty major task, I readily admit, but it seems to me to be a basic requirement if one is to claim that all faiths contain the Truth, and then to go on to claim what those faiths do and do not bring to the understanding of Truth. Given what you’ve said, I think many practitioners of other faiths might be a bit surprised to find out that their faith really teaches such-and-such, according to Baha’u’llah (I’m taking this on advisement, given what the Baha’i practitioners have revealed here). Personally, this would bother me. Being a curious individual, I would go and read up thoroughly on what those other faiths teach before I made up my mind about the matter. If you choose to do so, I can only speculate what you learn may surprise you.
Loopydude, thank you for your input. I have made some effort over the past five years to learn a little about other world religions, but have not had the time or resources to devote the time to the study of them that you have. But I value everyone’s opinion and input.
My beliefs are not carved in stone, but as I said before, my decision to follow this particular path was not made rationally, but rather spiritually. My spiritual journeys may take me other places in the future.
It’s my understanding that women are not allowed in positions of leadership within Bahai.
Only in the Universal House of Justice. All other positions and benefits are open to any sex. As for the reason, only speculation. The wife of Shoghi Effendi, Ruhiyah Khanum, asked Shoghi Effendi about it pretty constantly until he finally said he really didn’t know. Thus, I can speculate that men might have a spiritual quality that is distinct from women that makes them more qualified to the position. My Mom speculates that it is because women tend to invoke God’s mercy more, while men tend to invoke God’s justice more. I’m sure Baha’is in 2863 (when we believe is the earliest the next Manifestation of God can come), will ask all about these and other questions.
There are women on National Spiritual Assemblies all over the world. Women are on Local Spiritual Assemblies all over the world. Women are given first dibs on education and social capital because they are the mothers of the children and the first teachers of the children.
In practice, sure, men in the Baha’i Faith may practice such equality as far as their own culture and conscience may allow them. I am pretty agressive in my feminism, even as a male. Other Baha’i men that I know feel different depending on their upbringing. (For instance, I know an American Male who really works on his own downing of women for being “bitches and/or hos.”) No one is perfect here, but we try.
Yes and no, I could spend 90% of my time studying each and every religion and only have 10% of my time to sleep and eat. And I could do it for a lifetime and never crack a book on my own religion. You see what I’m getting at? In the Baha’i writings, we see The Truth as we believe God has revealed to humanity for this age. I know the most about Christianity because that’s who I deal with mostly. I have read most other religion’s Holy Books. However, I have not studied them in depth. I believe that Buddha taught humanity a greatly important lesson about the distinctiveness between this material world and the next world, which is entirely spiritual. I respect and admire Buddhist Monk’s pure drive at achieving the goal. However, to boil down the Baha’i Faith’s tenants down to a sentance, we are commanded to: “Know and love God and carry forth an ever advancing civilization.” Thus, I am not supposed to cloister myself away from humanity. I believe that those Buddhist who have achieved near spiritual perfection would be a great help in getting Western societies away from materialism and towards spiritualism. The Buddhist writings are beautiful. However, we believe that for this time in humanity’s spiritual evolution, the Baha’i writings are the clearest and most pure (in translation and not adding in regular human’s crap) for obtaining the ulitimate goal of God’s plan. Which is one world and one God in peace.
Which is why I wish Baha’is and Muslims could talk more about some of this stuff. Many of the Persian and Arabic Baha’is I know in America have talked about really bad religious intolerance in many Middle Eastern Muslim countries. When I find out someone is Muslim, I sort of quiet down about being a Baha’i because of that. I love Islam and find the Baha’i Faith to be the greatest expression of submission to God’s will.
I promise I’ll get to homosexuality and the Baha’i Faith soon.
Well, it’s something I actually had to do to get through my major, and I will readily admit is sucked pretty hard when I was in the midst of it. Again, for the lay Baha’i worshipper, I don’t suppose there’s much point going into that major depth, but I stand by my attitude that for the theologian, what I had to endure should be a minimum requirement, for the reasons I stated.
What I took from some of norinew’s statements is that somehow she may have come to some of her understandings of Buddhism and Islam via Baha’i teachings, which made me wonder what the heck she was being taught. If I’m wrong about my suspicions, then there’s little more to discuss on the matter. If I’m right, it’s an eyebrow raiser, if you ask me.
Zoe, it occurs to me that I never answered your question about Baha’is not accepting non-Baha’i contributions, and one of the reasons I didn’t answer is that I don’t know. If I had to speculate, I would say it may be for the same reason AA and NA don’t accept outside contributions: because they don’t want money to be a source of contention. I mean, sure it wouldn’t be much if non-Baha’i visitors to the Baha’i temple put a buck or two in a collection pot, but suppose, say, a distillery wanted to donate 2M dollars, but then expected us to weaken our views on intoxication. We’d get into a big battle about that, and we Baha’is don’t like to fight.
Loopydude, a lot of what I know about the connection between Buddhism and Baha’i, I get from Baha’i websites. The stuff I was spouting about Islam is apparently concocted of common 'Merican misconceptions. Some of the stuff about Islam were things I picked up from an Islamic spouse of one our Baha’i members. Of course I realize that the beliefs and attitudes of one Muslim does not reflect the attitudes of the entire faith. I apologized for them. Also, some of my views of Buddhism and Baha’i come from my friend who was Buddhist and converted. But he wasn’t Theravada Buddhist. But you see, to some extent, that proves something; even Buddhists can’t always agree on what Buddhism is. Also, BytopianDream is absolutely right that we are not supposed to cloister ourselves away. We are supposed to be out amidst people, doing the work of God as we understand it.
Well, that is most certainly true.
Again, ultimately, it doesn’t matter, as far as one’s own faith goes, I suppose. Having said all this, I find the study of the core tenents of Buddhism to be fascinating in the extreme. If you’re interested in what the Buddha taught, as opposed to what Buddhists teach (which may or may not be the same thing), the closest you (or anyone else) will get is the original Pali texts, the Tripitakas, and those are way cool. That is all!