Hi,
This is an all out open minded scientific discussion and a continuation of “Islam and Science”,but on a much more general level.You can ask Me,Raven,Averroes and any other Islamic Guys who join about our religion.Ask anything you feel like?We will try our best to answer.
Ciao
Zeeshan
Hello,
I was recently in Pakistan. I also work and count as friends several people who were born in Pakistan and are now Americans. They are muslims.
During my Pakistan trip, a muslim friend told me that one of the tenets of islam is to take up arms against the non-believer if necessary. I was told that when America funded the “freedom-fighters” in Afghanistan, this was one of the gains for the “freedom-fighters”, as the Russians they were fighting against were officially athiest.
What exactly is a non-believer? What is the position in islam about athiesm? What is the position about other religions, including christianity and judeism? Under what conditions are muslims expected to take up arms against non-believers?
Thank you.
Hi guys ,
What are you feelings about all the negative stereotypes that the western media seem to like to use about your religion ?
What do you see as the most common errors non-Muslims make about your religion ?
Thx.
Hi Zeeshan (and friends)!
I have a few very basic questions for you. I hope they are not stupid questions, but I know so little of Islamic beliefs.
As I have an English version of the Koran, I would love for anything you answer to be referenced with verses from the book, so that I may have some good reference points, if that isn’t too much trouble!
[ol][li]Is Islam a proselytizing religion? That is, do you wish to gain converts, such as Christians do, or is your faith more of the Jewish faith, where gaining converts is not important?[/li][li]What is the afterlife supposed to be like? Are there concepts of heaven and hell like in Christianity?[/li][li]How does Islam look at other religions?[/li][li]In going over the Koran, I see that many references from the Bible (specifically the Old Testament) are in there. What do Muslims think of the Old Testament? How about the New Testament?[/li][li]How is Muhammad looked at - like Jesus (a messiah), like Buddhists see the Buddha (a wise person) or simply a prophet?[/li][li]How is Jesus looked at in your faith? I see his name mentioned in the Koran.[/li][li]There are a ton of branches of Christianity and different followers of Judaism from Orthodox to Reform - is Islam the same thing?[/li][li]How different is the Islam preached by black Americans such as Farrakhan from the beliefs more prevalent in the Middle East, or is there a difference at all?[/li][li]Why the changing of names? Is this mandatory?[/li][li]If I wanted to go to a mosque and watch you worship, would I be allowed?[/li][li]What is more impiortant to Muslims - faith in Allah, or the works (deeds) that you do here, or are both important?[/li][li]Do you think there can ever be peace between your faith and Jews?[/ol][/li]I’m sure this is Islam for Dummies, but I think a lot of people are ignorant of these things like myself, and I’m sure it will stimulate discussion from other people here of different faiths!
In spite of my harsh words to Averroes in another thread, I am glad all of you are here.
Yer pal,
Satan
*TIME ELAPSED SINCE I QUIT SMOKING:
Three months, three weeks, two days, 5 hours, 4 minutes and 42 seconds.
4568 cigarettes not smoked, saving $571.06.
Life saved: 2 weeks, 1 day, 20 hours, 40 minutes.
“Satan is not an unattractive person.”*-Drain Bead (Thanks for the ringing endoresement, honey!)
Hello Muslims. Welcome aBoard.
I think that a seperate thread is an excellent idea. It is my belief that the previous thread is about to become a spirited Creation vs. Evolution debate which the famous 12th century philosopher, in spite of his confidence, will lose. I will repost my question here and ask if any care to answer.
Also a special welcome and greeting for Abbas. Does your name perhaps related to “father”?
( Just to expand my limited knowledge of Afro-Asiatic language family. )
2sense - Journeyman of the obvious
Why does part of every recognizable group of people, i.e. gay people, straight people, Christian people, Muslim people, Atheistic people, etc. feel it absolutely necessary to start a thread in which people may address questions towards the thread starter under the presumption that they can somehow possibly represent the opinions of the group as a whole?
I guess I should copy this post into each respective thread to gather a general consensus from gay people, straight people, Christians, Muslims, Atheists, etc.
threemae , they might not speak for every Muslim but they know more about Islam than I do so I’m interested in how this thread will turn out .
BTW : It wasn’t their idea to start this thread it was started after a request from Satan.
Question:
In the minds of many people, the images of Muslims and Arabs are associated. This is despite the fact that there are some Arabs who are not Muslims, and many Muslims who are not Arabs.
Do you feel that there has been confusion regarding certain characteristics, as to whether they are to be associated with the Muslim faith or with the Arab culture? If so, please clarify these.
Are you Sunni or Shi’a?
This civility is downright spooky.
Where are the hit-and-run barbs? Where are the questions about “stupid mysterious ways”? Where is Slythe? Where is David B.? Where are the probing metaphysical questions from Gaudere? Why has the IPU not been invoked?
Dear Islamic Guys:
Please state your source of reality, your source of knowledge, and your source of morality. Thank you.
Because our new guests didnt come in here screaming that we are all going to hell, and that their way is the one true way, I suppose.
And this thread will be a great learning experience to see how a few members of a different creed will respond to our answers.
I learned a little bit about libertarianism from your thread
and now I would like to learning a little bit about Islam.
anyway, It’ll only be about 2 weeks before they will be having post parties in MPSIMS 
hi,
Thanx for backing me up yojimbo.
Ok here’s some stuff to answer everybody’s questions.i am gonna get the other islamic guys to show up too ok.After writing all this, i am thinking of writing a book titled ISLAM FOR DUMMIES 
just kidding.
This is gonna be interesting.Okie dokie now.
well here it goes(This will take some time)
Ok here is the story.In the beginning of Islam the number of believers was very small.The reason for this was that mecca was a religious centre for idol worship and thus the traders and businessmen earned a lot of money and did not want to lose their business.Heck for them it was perfect until one of them a man named Mohammad decides one day to declare himself a prophet.He takes them to a nearby mountain and tells them that if he told them that there was an army behind the mountain waiting to attack them,whether they would believe him or not.They reply that never in his life had he told a lie,so they would all believe him.Then he declared that he was a prophet of God.This changed the equation for now they saw their whole livelihood and way of life threatened.They started fighting the muslims who had to flee to medina due to violence against them.They attempted the assasination of Muhammad,but he got away.
Even then Muhammad told his followers to be patient.Islam is not a religion of war.It was not until the very survival of all the Muslims was threatened after the Meccan tribes decided to eliminate them,that God gave the muslims permission to defend themselves against crimes against them.At that time the muslims were few in numbers.They were outnumbered 3-1 and had little weapons.But they had a new power.The power of Jihad.They were convinced that they were fighting for God and would prevail.Prevail they did.And that was how it started.
Jihad is gravely misrepresented.Jihad means a struggle.If i struggle to achieve knowledge by stuying hard,then that is my Jihad because i am accomplishing the will of God by achieving knowledge.Also it is compulsory for every muslim of age to fight when jihad is declared,though if you’re parents are very old and can’t support themselves without you(and in similar circumstances),you are not allowed to fight.In fact it is wrong to go for Jihad for such a person,no matter how much he wants to serve God.He will get his reward for serving his parents.
Jihad in the fighting sense is to fight against injustice.e.g in chechnya,Jihad is applicable,Bosnia is another example.Kashmir a prime example too.I don’t know about afghanistan 'cos from all the afghani people i know,the afghanis were pretty happy under the russians and their troubles began now.
The Americans(and Pakitanis who had a pact with the americans)created the resistance against USSR for political purposes.Theyt heavily funded Islamic organizations and told them to fight against the russian occupation.The organization were given oppurtunities for exapnsion and funding,so they obliged.A new wave of Jihad followed,with muslims seeking the pleasure of God,being brainwashed into thinking that an atheist country was ruling Afghanistan and hence a Jihad was necessary.Well they fought for the love of God,died in the way of God and America became the lone superpower.That is not jihad.Now the same organizations are against america 'cos their minds have been changed in such a way that they were first fighting the atheist domainators(USSR) so now they will fight the christian dominators.
In Islam the christians and Jews are respected and given a very big preference over atheists.This is because Islam certifies the validity of christianity and jewism and their prophets are also our prophets.e.g muslims will never call jesus christ anything other than saying that he is not the son of God.We muslims have to respect moses,jesus and all the other prophets like Noah,Abraham,Solomon,Adam etc.
This does not mean that you kill every disbeliever you meet.Islam stresses strongly that in a government you should let people control religious autonomy.It has banned a number of religious things like idolatory etc. but that is for muslims.The prophet spread his teachings by proving and convincing instead of forcing.There is no compulsion in religion.
Islam believes in setting a good model so that others can follow your lead and become impressed by the nature and ways of your religion and choose to convert,instead of being forced to convert.Why would God want to force people to follow islam.It makes no sense.Allah has said that he made the human the greatest of all creations,because he was given free will.He could obey or oppose God.All the angels were told to bow before him because he was Gods ultimate creation.God had made angels obeyers.They cannot refuse God.They must obey,but to the human he gave a gift.The gift of free will and choice.God has put us through a small test.This is of course whether we obey or disobey if we are told the truth.Whether we will do good or bad etc.
Islam stresses balance in religion.We must not make religion or the world our only focus.
Islam prohibits hermits and solitary life.It does not permit neglecting your business for your religion and vice versa.it does not permit running away form life.Islam is all about balance and harmony.
There is no fundamentalism in Islam.
When Islam has been in the world from the beginning of time.First Adam then after that it grew in many forms until minds had become mature to accept the final version i.e what we call Islam.God has many different names.But that is irrelevant.God doesn’t need a name.He is a force.It doesn’t matter if you call him God,Allah whatever.
FOR SATAN’S QUESTIONS:
We do focus on conversion but through the right means.Islam is very much focused on spreading the word of God so that people may hear the word of God.Why else would God send 120,000 prophets over the ages.Its all about spreading.Who said judaism is not about spreading.Why did moses even tell anyone that he was a prophet.It was only to spread Gods word.So the people may not want ot spread it at the moment maybe.But its all about spreading.
A beautiful paradise described in the Quran and a very nasty hell is also described.The whole process and signs of judgement day are also described.
About the bible.It is mentioned as a holy book,however there is a problem.It is also mentioned that Jesus is not the son of God as God is not anyones son and not anyones father.Christianity is an almost perfect religion(It came only a short while before Islam),except for the fact that it was too corrupted.In islam you will still get many views from different sources,but the Quran is still there and preserved for all to see and think about and ponder over.
In islam a prophet is a messiah and not simply a prophet.All prophets have a very very high position unlike that of ours.Jesus and Muhammad both share the same position alongwith moses and Abraham and all the other prophets of God.Though muslims will love Muhammad much more but that is a personal matter.Muhammad is however the last prophet and the final messenger.There were no prophets after him and won’t be.That gives him an edge over the rest because he was chosen to complete the religion.
However it must be noted that islam stresses the human nature and simplicity of Muhammad.It is only through our love for him and the position endowed to him by God that he is so great.e.g He got a high fever after the first revelation.He was a normal human and to equate him with a God or demigod or other creature is against the teachings of Islam.Similarly,jesus was a normal human too.
Divisions in islam were due to some politics after the prophets death.There are two divisions the sunni’s and the shia’s.It was politically rather than religiously motivated and it really doesn’t matter which you follow.There is nothing in islam like so and so sect will go to hell.Like the catholics and the orthodox dudes.Islam is one religion and following its basic teachings makes you a muslim.many people like me don’t bother with the division.You are a muslim if you believe that There is one true God and that Muhammad is his prophet.
Preaching is based on your own self i.e the preacher.It doesn’t matter who or where he’s from.The beliefs are the same everywhere.No division of race or creed.In fact islam was the first religion to grant black people there rights.It did not abolish slavery though it equated all races as being the same and warned a grave punishment for mistreating women,children,slaves,old people etc.
It also encouraged freeing slaves.In the very beginning it was a black nubian slave who joined Islam and was tortured by his master for doing so,He was being tortured very severely to declare that the idols were the real god.He was taking the punishment and would not consent.He would have died ,had it not been for the muslims to pay for his freedom and free him for a large sum of money after hearing about what had ensued.This man was later known as Hazrat Bilal.A very prominent and respected figure.
Changing of names is not mandatory at all.In the beginning some people changed their names because sometimes
the names had unislamic meanings associated to idolworship so they wanted to change it.later on it became a practice,though its more of a custom now.Islam does not state that you have to change your name.In fact a lot of people don’t and there is no harm and no extra benefits in changing the name involved.
e.g if your name is TOM,then it has no meaning so if you like it keep it.English names are non meaningful anyway.it is eastern names that always have meaning attached.e.g Muhammad means “the praised one”.The prophet did not change his name after the message and neither did most of his followers.There are no benefits attached to changing your name,though a lot of people do it because they want to.Heck its your name!
You would be most welcome to visit a mosque anytime.Everybody is.Just like the Quran is for everybody to read.
Both faith in Allah and deeds are important.In Islam its the thought that counts.If you say hello to someone with a smile even that is rewarded.If you only think about doing a good deed.i.e you want to do something good,you are even rewarded for it if you do it or not.However if you plan a bad deed but do not commit it then you are not punished.Its that simple.However belief in God is a pillar.Why would God want to reward someone who’s doing the good deeds for the idol that sits on his desk at home?
About peace between the jews and muslims,well i dunno,politically no and otherwise yes.I mean i don’t care about religion.If i like someone i will have them as my friend,same with other muslims.Just like Indians and pakistani people seldom fight unless it is over kashmir.so there’s a difference between politics and individual opinion.
Bye
Zeeshan
Queries: what is the difference between the beliefs of a Sunni Muslim and a She-ite Muslim? (forgive my spelling please). What caused the scism in the first place?
There are two major divisions in Islam: the Sunnis and the Shi’ites. The majority of Muslims are Sunnis. Shi’ites are found mostly in Iran (where they are the majority), Iraq, Yemen, Oman, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India. “Sunni” comes from the Arabic word sunnah, meaning “customary practice.” Sunnah (capitalized) means the words and deeds of Muhammad, as recorded in the Qur’an, the Hadith (sayings of Muhammad) and the Shari’ah (Islamic law). Sunni Muslims consider that God ordained the first four caliphs.
“Shi’ite” comes from shi’ah, the Arabic word for “party” or “following.” A Shi’ite is a follower of 'Ali. The Shi’ites have a different view of early Muslim history. They claim that Muhammad wanted 'Ali to be his successor, but that 'Ali was so involved in the funeral preparations for Muhammad that he was not aware that Abu Bakr had been chosen as caliph. Thus, he had to wait until after the first three caliphs to become the rightful successor to Muhammad.
According to Shi’ites, 'Ali was the first true caliph, or imam (Arabic for “leader”). In Sunni Islam, the imam is the man who leads the Friday prayers in a mosque, but in Shi’ite Islam, the imam is the divinely appointed successor to Muhammad. All Shi’ites agree that the imamate is still in existence, even though there has been no imam for the past several hundred years. Most Shi’ites recognize twelve imams before the time when the imamate became “hidden,” but some, known as the Ismailis (after Ismail, the seventh imam), recognize only seven. Shi’ites believe that the hidden imam, called the Mahdi, will return at the end of the world.
Additionally, Sunnis are more…traditional. They believe that they already have the truth, and go with it. Shi’ism is a more dynamic (and by that I mean changing) sect. There is always more truth to be discovered. Shi’a Islam is more mystical; Shi’is do stuff like flagellate themselves. From my non-Muslim POV, they seem to be more emotionally involved in their religion than the Sunnis.
Please feel free to disagree with me. I should add that I have studied Islam, and kind of “agree” with Shi’a Islam more than Sunni. If I were Muslim, I would be Shi’i. So I’m not entirely impartial, cause I “like” Shi’a Islam better.
will you be allowed to enter a mosque and see us pray? absolutly. find the imam, and tell him you just want to observe. he would gladly allow you.
just dont forget to take your shoes off
sunni is alot closer than the original religion. it was not true that Prophet Muhammed(PBUH) asked Ali to become the first caliph. They took a vote to who should become caliph, and Abu Bakr was chosen by the people to become the first caliph. The Prophet(SAW) was also sunni.
- Something from nothing?
The “Big Bang”, the most widely accepted theory of the beginning of the universe, states that everything developed from a small dense cloud of subatomic particles and radiation which exploded, forming hydrogen (and some helium) gas. Where did this energy/matter come from? How reasonable is it to assume it came into being from nothing? And even if it did come into being, what would cause it to explode? We know from common experience that explosions are destructive and lead to disorder.How reasonable is it to assume that a “big bang” explosion produced the opposite effect - increasing “information”, order and the formation of useful structures, such as stars andplanets, and eventually people?
2. Physical laws an accident?
We know the universe is governed by several fundamental physical laws, such as electromagnetic forces, gravity, conservation of mass and energy, etc. The activities of our universe depend upon these principles like a computer program depends upon the existenceof computer hardware with an instruction set. How reasonable is it to say that these great controlling principles developed by accident?
3. Order from disorder?
The Second Law of Thermodynamics may be the most verified law of science. It states that systems become more disordered over time, unless energy is supplied and directed to create order. Evolutionists says that the opposite has taken place - that order increased over time, without any directed energy. How can this be?
ASIDE: Evolutionists commonly object that the Second Law applies to closed, or isolated systems, and that the Earth is certainly not a closed system (it gets lots of raw energy from the Sun, for example). However, all systems, whether open or closed, tend to deteriorate. For example, living organisms are open systems but they all decay and die. Also, theuniverse in total is a closed system. To say that the chaos of the big bang has transformed itself into the human brain with its 120 trillion connections is a clear violation of the SecondLaw.
We should also point out that the availability of raw energy to a system is a necessary but far from sufficient condition for a local decrease in entropy to occur. Certainly theapplication of a blow torch to bicycle parts will not result in a bicycle being assembled - only the careful application of directed energy will, such as from the hands of a person following a plan. The presence of energy from the Sun does NOT solve the evolutionist’sproblem of how increasing order could occur on the Earth, contrary to the Second Law.
4. Information from Randomness?
Information theory states that “information” never arises out of randomness or chance events. Our human experience verifies this every day. How can the origin of the tremendousincrease in information from simple organisms up to man be accounted for? Information is always introduced from the outside. It is impossible for natural processes to produce theirown actual information, or meaning, which is what evolutionists claim has happened. Random typing might produce the string “dog”, but it only means something to an intelligent observer who has applied a definition to this sequence of letters. The generation of information always requires intelligence, yet evolution claims that no intelligence was involved in the ultimate formation of a human being whose many systems contain vast amounts of information.
5. Life from dead chemicals?
Evolutionists claim that life formed from non-life (dead chemicals), so-called “abiogenesis”, even though it is a biological law (“biogenesis”) that life only comes from life. The probability of the simplest imaginable replicating system forming by itself from non-living chemicals has been calculated to be so very small as to be essentially zero - much less than one chance in the number of electron-sized particles that could fit in the entire visible universe! Given these odds, is it reasonable to believe that life formed itself?
6. Complex DNA and RNA by chance?
The continued existence (the reproduction) of a cell requires both DNA (the “plan”) and RNA (the “copy mechanism”), both of which are tremendously complex. How reasonable is it to believe that these two co-dependent necessities came into existence by chance at exactly the same time?
7. Life is complex.
We know and appreciate the tremendous amount of intelligent design and planning that went into landing a man on the moon. Yet the complexity of this task pales in comparison to the complexity of even the simplest life form. How reasonable is it to believe that purely natural processes, with no designer, no intelligence, and no plan, produced a human being.
8. Where are the transitional fossils?
If evolution has taken place our museums should be overflowing with the skeletons of countless transitional forms. Yet after over one hundred years of intense searching only asmall number of transitional candidates are touted as proof of evolution. If evolution has really taken place, where are the transitional forms? And why does the fossil record actuallyshow all species first appearing fully formed, with most nearly identical to current instances of the species?
ASIDE: Most of the examples touted by evolutionists concentrate on just one feature of the anatomy, like a particular bone or the skull. A true transitional fossil should be intermediatein many if not all aspects. The next time someone shows you how this bone changed over time, ask them about the rest of the creature too!
Many evolutionists still like to believe in the “scarcity” of the fossil record. Yet simple statistics will show that given you have found a number of fossil instances of a creature, thechances that you have missed every one of its imagined predecessors is very small. Consider the trilobites for example. These fossils are so common you can buy one for under $20, yet no fossils of a predecessor have been found!
9. Could an intermediate even survive?
Evolution requires the transition from one kind to another to be gradual. And don’t forget that “natural selection” is supposed to retain those individuals which have developed an advantage of some sort. How could an animal intermediate between one kind and another even survive (and why would it ever be selected for), when it would not be well-suited toeither its old environment or its new environment? Can you even imagine a possible sequence of small changes which takes a creature from one kind to another, all the while keeping it not only alive, but improved?
ASIDE: Certainly a “light-sensitive spot” is better than no vision at all. But why would such a spot even develop? (evolutionists like to take this for granted). And even if it did develop, to believe that mutations of such a spot eventually brought about the tremendous complexities of the human eye strains all common sense and experience.
10. Reproduction without reproduction?
A main tenet of evolution is the idea that things develop by an (unguided) series of small changes, caused by mutations, which are “selected” for, keeping the “better” changes" over a very long period of time. How could the ability to reproduce evolve, without the ability to reproduce? Can you even imagine a theoretical scenario which would allow this tohappen? And why would evolution produce two sexes, many times over? Asexual reproduction would seem to be more likely and efficient!
ASIDE: To relegate the question of reproduction to “abiogenesis” does NOT address the problem. To assume existing, reproducing life for the principles of evolution to work on is aHUGE assumption which is seldom focused on in popular discussions.
11. Plants without photosynthesis?
The process of photosynthesis in plants is very complex. How could the first plant survive unless it already possessed this remarkable capability?
12. How do you explain symbiotic relationships?
There are many examples of plants and animals which have a “symbiotic” relationship (they need each other to survive). How can evolution explain this?
13.It’s no good unless it’s complete.
We know from everyday experience that an item is not generally useful until it is complete, whether it be a car, a cake, or a computer program. Why would natural selection start to make an eye, or an ear, or a wing (or anything else) when this item would not benefit the animal until it was completed?
ASIDE: Note that even a “light-sensitive spot” or the simplest version of any feature is far from a “one-jump” change that is trivial to produce.
14. Explain metamorphosis!
How can evolution explain the metamorphosis of the butterfly? Once the caterpillar evolves into the “mass of jelly” (out of which the butterfly comes), wouldn’t it appear to be “stuck”?
15. It should be easy to show evolution.
If evolution is the grand mechanism that has produced all natural things from a simple gas, surely this mechanism must be easily seen. It should be possible to prove its existence in a matter of weeks or days, if not hours. Yet scientists have been bombarding countless generations of fruit flies with radiation for several decades in order to show evolution in action and still have only produced … more (deformed) fruit flies. How reasonable is it to believe that evolution is a fact when even the simplest of experiments has not been able to document it?
ASIDE: The artificial creation of a new species is far too small of a change to prove that true “macro-evolution” is possible. A higher-order change, where the information contentof the organism has been increased should be showable and is not. Developing a new species changes the existing information, but does not add new information, such as would be needed for a new organ, for example.
16. Complex things require intelligent design folks!
People are intelligent. If a team of engineers were to one day design a robot which could cross all types of terrain, could dig large holes, could carry several times its weight, found its own energy sources, could make more robots like itself, and was only 1/8 of an inch tall, we would marvel at this achievement. All of our life’s experiences lead us to know that such a robot could never come about by accident, or assemble itself by chance, even if all of the parts were available laying next to each other. And we are certain beyond doubt that a canister of hydrogen gas, not matter how long we left it there or what type of raw energy we might apply to it, would never result in such a robot being produced. But we already have such a “robot” - it is called an “ant”, and we squash them because they are “nothing” compared to people. And God made them, and he made us. Can there be any other explanation?