Hello everyone, just joined this forum. I’m from England. Anyway, for quite a while I was a vehement aetheist. But after years of slowly mulling the question over I gradually came to believe that there is some kind of God (or Goddess).
About 7 months ago I was working in a staff canteen in Manchester and met a guy called Elroy, who was in for a few days doing relief work. A while after meeting him he says “Do you believe in God my friend?”. I was like “Err…not really. I believe in somthing like that.”. So he starts telling me about how Jesus is the savior and how I should turn to him. After some mild debating the conversation gets to “And if I don’t believe in Jesus?”. Answer: “…then you’re going to hell my friend.” The debate ended. When I looked back at this later I wondered why I hadn’t put this senario to him:
“OK, what would you say if you lived a long and virtuous life and maintained you’re faith in Jesus. After you die you meet God and He says to you “Though you have done some things right, you failed to see Mohammed as My true messanger and see that My name is Allah. Face the fire.” Then a trapdoor opens and you fall into the fiery horrors”
So the question is, if you were a vehement christian with similar views to Elroy, what would you say to God before said fiery horrors ensued? Thanks.
[QUOTE=steven01]
So the question is, if you were a vehement christian with similar views to Elroy, what would you say to God before said fiery horrors ensued?
[/QUOTE]
I’d say "And let me guess; if I were Muslim you’d be telling me ‘Sorry, you failed to see that I am Jehovah, and worship the false God Allah.’ "
A better answer to Elroy might be that if he truly understood his faith he a) wouldn’t be judging you and b) hasn’t the faintest idea what God has in store for you. You need to get back and hit the books Elroy.
If the afterlife scenario played out I would probably try to lawyer God: “Oh c’mon you know more perfectly and better than I do there was no freakin’ way in my time, place and culture that I was going to convert to Islam. Is this a test of my obedience now? Because I can’t believe for a second that you would be that seemingly unreasonable.” If he assured me he was I would ask about what I could do to redeem myself.
[QUOTE=steven01]
After some mild debating the conversation gets to “And if I don’t believe in Jesus?”. Answer: “…then you’re going to hell my friend.” The debate ended.
[/QUOTE]
Kind of off-topic, but I’m English too and ending a conversational comment “…my friend” is utterly, utterly alien to my ears - maybe you just paraphrased him - but if not, then I would say he was following a script or parroting some preacher he had recently heard.
[QUOTE=Mangetout]
Kind of off-topic, but I’m English too and ending a conversational comment “…my friend” is utterly, utterly alien to my ears - maybe you just paraphrased him - but if not, then I would say he was following a script or parroting some preacher he had recently heard.
[/QUOTE]
The Elroy person might not be English, though. If he were, say, a student from Nigeria or wherever, then I could see the " blah blah, my friend" thing happening. Amusing in the context of consigning non-believers to hell, of course.
Lawyer!God should take a page out of Aslan’s book.
[QUOTE=Emeth the Calormene, in C.S. Lewis’s ‘The Last Battle’]
“So I went over much grass and many flowers and among all kinds of wholesome and delectable trees till lo! in a narrow place between two rocks there came to meet me a great Lion. The speed of him was like the ostrich, and his size was an elephant’s; his hair was like pure gold and the brightness of his eyes, like gold that is liquid in the furnace. He was more terrible than the Flaming Mountain of Lagour, and in beauty he surpassed all that is in the world, even as the rose in bloom surpasses the dust of the desert. Then I fell at his feet and thought, Surely this is the hour of death, for the Lion (who is worthy of all honour) will know that I have served Tash all my days and not him. Nevertheless, it is better to see the Lion and die than to be Tisroc of the world and live and not to have seen him. But the Glorious One bent down his golden head and touched my forehead with his tongue and said, Son, thou art welcome. But I said, Alas, Lord, I am no son of Thine but the servant of Tash. He answered, Child, all the service thou has done to Tash, I account as service done to me. Then by reason of my great desire for wisdom and understanding, I overcame my fear and questioned the Glorious One and said, Lord, is it then true, as the Ape said, that thou and Tash are one? The Lion growled so that the earth shook (but his wrath was not against me) and said, It is false. Not because he and I are one, but because we are opposites. I take to me the services which thou hast done to him, for I and he are of such different kinds that no service which is vile can be done to me, and none which is not vile can be done to him. Therefore if a man swear by Tash and keep his oath for the oath’s sake, it is by me that he has truly sworn, though he know it not, and it is I who reward him. And if any man do a cruelty in my name, then though he says the name Aslan, it is Tash whom he serves and by Tash his deed is accepted.”
[/QUOTE]
Uhhh…I can’t believe that I’m the first to point this out:
Allah IS the Christian god, just by another name.
Islam was founded on Judaism, just as Christianity was, and the main doctrinal difference between the two is that Christianity doesn’t recognize Muhammed as a genuine prophet or his writings as sacred.
So, if I were to meet Allah, I’d say, “Hey, Allah, Jehovah, Yahweh, baby! Let’s me and you head on done to the pub, hoist a few, and talk about what those idiots down there are doing in your name.”
The God of Islam and the God of Christianity are the same God. That’s not a philosophical musing, it’s an objective fact. Allah means “God” in Arabic. Mohammed identified his God as identical to the God of Judaism and Christianity. Arab Christians call God “Allah.” If A Christian meets Allah in Heaven, he’s meeting exactly the God he was expecting to meet.
It makes me wonder when people say “my god” versus “your god” or something. Maybe he’s just God by whatever name you may call him, regardless of what religion you practice (or don’t).
[QUOTE=Satyagrahi]
Islam was founded on Judaism, just as Christianity was, and the main doctrinal difference between the two is that Christianity doesn’t recognize Muhammed as a genuine prophet or his writings as sacred.
[/QUOTE]
Well, and that Islam considers Jesus as “only” a prophet and not as the Incarnate Word of God. It’s not all one-way traffic.
[QUOTE=Othersider]
It makes me wonder when people say “my god” versus “your god” or something. Maybe he’s just God by whatever name you may call him, regardless of what religion you practice (or don’t).
[/QUOTE]
That reasoning only works for monotheistic religions.
