Thats easy to say, cluster B personality types can be a massive drain and a huge cause of suffering for those around them, and the recommended method of keeping yourself sane if the person isn’t willing to get help is to cut them out of your life. besides, they don’t respond well to treatment. ASPD has no known treatments, and things like narcissistic personality disorder and BPD are hard to treat because the sufferer can delude themselves into believing they are right and others are wrong.
Constant conflict will wear a normal person down, but for BPDs it is their bread and butter.
During the last year when my ex showed 100% her true self, she stated several times that she’s displeased that we hardly ever fight. She said that all couples fight and we are not normal.
I believe that a couple where both partners are BPDs will fight all the time and they will be happy 
My ex had the BPD textbook troubled family, her mother was cold and uncaring to the point of being cruel with her children (probably a sufferer of BPD too) and her father had problems with alcohol abuse.
However, after reading similar stories, I consider my ex a rather mild case. She has never shown any signs of self harm, addiction or violence towards me and in retrospect it was only a specific set of things that would trigger her. A sufferer of full blown BPD can be triggered by almost anything.
I spent six months in a relationship with a diagnosed BPD sufferer (who also happened to be bipolar on top of it). What you mention here is almost identical to some of what I went through with her. I never had sex with her, despite all her literally begging me to, but she cheated on me three times. Each time, she’d come to me a short time later and make a remorseful confession. And each time I forgave her, because by that time I’d learned to be careful about setting her off. Except she would then proceed to get extremely angry with me because I wasn’t getting angry with her. I was supposed to get mad, dammit! I was supposed to pitch a fit and threaten her and turn into a rage monster. But no, I was “too passive” and I “just didn’t care enough”. Though to be honest, by the third time I truly didn’t care. I was too familiar with the pattern by that point and was already plotting my extremely careful withdrawal from the relationship.
What Rachellelogram said about it being an attachment disorder is spot-on. There was a book written about BPD called, “I Hate You! Don’t Leave Me!”. I didn’t get around to reading the book, but the title perfectly summed up other reading I’d done. Basically, the BPD sufferer is terrified of being abandoned, and is convinced that those closest to her are inevitably going to dump her. So she will make, essentially, a “pre-emptive strike”, doing everything she can to anger her partner into leaving. This lets her convince herself that she is the one who left the relationship (by consciously and deliberately driving the other person away), and thus was not “abandoned”. But then remorse sets in, and very soon she’ll come crawling back, begging for forgiveness and promising to “be good” if only the other person will take her back. Everything is fine for a while, but then the cycle starts all over again.
She also had an absolutely uncanny ability to take literally anything I said, even the most innocuous comment, and instantly leap to the worst possible interpretation. She did that all the time.
Well shit, that means at least 50% of Dopers have BPD!
As a clinician, I confess to having a genuine annoy-on (similar to a hate-on, but more therapeutic) for Borderlines, and I can see one coming from a mile away. I used to joke, during my crisis assessment days, that I had an early detection system- they make my teeth itch. A lot of the kids I worked with in my previous job were BPD, and it drove them mad that I was immune to their theatrics. There was much crying, and threatening, and screaming, and pushback, and everything but the kitchen sink. Actually, I take that back- they almost never avoided me. In fact they actively sought me out, because my boundaries were rock solid and it was like they couldn’t resist trying to find a way in. It became a genuine obsession with them, one that I found absolutely fascinating. Immoveable force meets unstoppable object.
There’s a woman in the carpool line I wait in in the morning that I have pretty much diagnosed BPD. I use a lot of the same techniques dealing with her as I did the kids, and it’s made the 45 minute wait a LOT more bearable.
Ethilrist apologized, I think we can stop dumping on him now!
I was coming in to address Rachellogram’s points about upbringing. I’m sure my mom had this problem. She grew up dirt poor in India, her mom died young, her dad died a few years later, her whole family relied on her as the eldest daughter. She scraped her way through nursing school and got out of the country…only to have an arranged marriage with someone eminently unsuited. Then her sister had an out-of-wedlock baby (me) and she adopted me, because it was the “right thing to do”.
Sure she’s been ground down by fate and life and the world. While I understand the explanations, they are not excuses for the way she behaved and never will be. I can tell you if there is anything worse than being in a romantic relationship with a BPD sufferer it is being a child of one, being under their thumb. You never knew when she was going to flip out and go in one of her rages, or maybe give me the silent treatment for days on end, or when she would randomly be in a good mood.
Other children would learn to anticipate their parents and have some idea of their moods. I used to dread coming home every day because I never knew what would be waiting for me - Nice Mom or Mean Mom. And it got worse and worse and worse, and yes, she drove most people away from her, including myself.
It was awful and it was clearly emotional abuse.
It’s interesting to read all these posts. Am I really the first person to chime in here who’s been diagnosed with BPD? I guess that means I should say something.
Firstly, I was diagnosed 12 years ago, but I haven’t had any kind of follow-up therapy for about 9 years. I’m “cured”, whatever that means. I’m going to defined “cured” in my case to mean that I haven’t done any of the erratic and self-destructive things I used to do, nor do I fall into depressive states or lash out at people. I don’t have paranoid feelings of persecution when somebody makes an innocuous comment, and I’ve held down a steady job for years and have been in a loving, successful marriage for five years now. My husband, as far as I know, isn’t walking on eggshells to avoid an explosion from my temper or from my crazy. We just live. We really dig eachother.
The fact that I believe I’m cured (at my last therapy session 9 years ago, she wrote “symptoms have abated”, because she explained that she couldn’t write “no symptoms” or “totally cured” or give me a NOT INSANE stamp on my hand), goes against what most people seem to think about BPD. Either I was misdiagnosed or I just didn’t have a severe case or something. Or maybe I was one of the few who truly wanted to change. I really enjoy being stable and rational- maybe some people actually prefer the excitement and drama of The Crazy, or feel that they’re incomplete or not themselves without it. I suppose stable and rational isn’t that exciting, but wrecking everything and everyone around you for years on end gets really old.
The only part of my former illness that never seemed to apply to me was me being awful and manipulative in relationships, those horrible on-and-off events that a lot of BPD sufferers find themselves in. I think it’s because I was always really shy around guys, and once I managed to get a guy’s attention, I would get so thrilled- he would be the answer to all my prayers!- that no guy ever stuck around long enough to sink into my BPD abyss. I would scare them off very quickly. Lucky for the guys, I guess. They were dodging serious bullets. Even though BPD people are supposed to think they are always right, I can’t defend my actions from when I was younger. I was horrible, that’s all there is to it.
There is some amount of self-loathing and embarrassment to look back and realize that you were wrong about everything- that the problem was you, not everyone around you, that you were in fact, very very stupid. I’ve convinced myself that part of the recovery process is coming to terms with that and moving on instead of dwelling.
The worst part is people from my past and my family who just can’t believe that a person can recover. See, normal people cry sometimes or have a bad day. Sometimes normal people get angry. I do these things, but they’re far more watered-down than what I used to be like, and a bad day only lasts a day now. But nowadays, every time I ever say something cross or snippy, or get a lump in my throat like I’m about to cry, the people who knew me way back when are always like “TAKE COVER! SHE’S GOING TO BLOW!” I get some satisfaction in proving them wrong in those cases.
Interesting post, Turpentine. Do you think you were misdiagnosed or what? How did you change and why do you think you were able to? Do you know any other people with BPD and if so, what do you think of them?
I really can’t say if I was misdiagnosed or not, but I have read quite a bit about BPD back in the day (having a diagnosis is fantastic because then you get to read all about yourself), and the then-DSM-IV listed all the traits and I would look at them and go “yep, check, check, uh-huh…maybe not that one so much, but all the others sound just like me…”
Other things I’ve read about BPD is that for some people, it just kind of goes away once the patient is about 30 or so. For other people it’s forever. And I did read Girl, Interrupted before the movie came out. Susanna Kaysen, the author, was also diagnosed with BPD and in the last few chapters, she also says that she’s long recovered. I even share some of her “recovered” views- namely, that for some people, once you are stable and sane, the last thing you ever want to do is get close to someone with a mental illness. These days, I want nothing to do with crazy people and stay as far away as I can, as if it’s contagious.
That’s not to say I reject friends who are going through depression or other difficult issues. I stand by them, but I don’t seek out new people who seem unstable to me. I want none of it.
That’s why I feel half-indignant reading these posts from exes of BPDs, thinking “Nu-uh! You’re mean! You need to give her a chance!”, versus my more rational mind saying “Well, you can’t blame them. BPDs are pretty awful. I should know, and damned if I’m going to become involved with one…”
Turpentine, that’s amazing that you recovered. Good on you that you did all that hard work and are diligent about your mental health now. And I’ll echo the question already asked, if you don’t mind; what did you do to get better? My friend would love to hear anything that might make her life easier dealing with her BPD (and refusing treatment) mom.
Could you give some specific examples of your symptoms or the “bad” things you did before you were cured? I don’t want to pry, but I’m very interested in the specifics as opposed to the abstract “I was bad.” I (not a Dr. of any sort) "diagnosed’ my ex-wife as BPD, with the help of my former boss (also not a Dr., but the mom of two mentally ill teenagers–one of whom had BPD). My ex’s shrink wouldn’t consider BPD, although she exhibited many of the classic characteristics that I looked up: impulsive, risky behavior including shoplifting and having affairs, shopaholism, mood swings, rages, seeing people as heros/villains.
Thanks,
FJS1FS
After reading this thread and then the descriptions of BPD on other websites, I am pretty sure a close friend of mine has this. Me and other friends have always just said she has a bit of crazy in her, but now it seems clear what’s going on. Here’s a quick run down:
[ul]
[li]She is very fast to lose her temper and can turn on you with the drop of a hat for the slightest thing.[/li][li]Her romantic relationships are train wrecks. Tons of fighting and drama.[/li][li]She frequently complains of feeling “out of control” and has wild mood swings.[/li][li]Has mentioned feeling suicidal numerous times.[/li][li]Has very shallow emotions.[/li][li]Has a horrible relationship with her parents.[/li][li]Has had issues with substances[/li][/ul]
Does this sound like BPD to you guys?
Yay, another thread pissing all over people with Borderline Personality Disorder! Is it any wonder so few of them get the proper treatment? We’ve even got clinicians in here backing up the prejudiced party line. Go stigma!
My childhood was hell because of it. But there is so much massive misunderstanding and mischaracterization of people with BPD I’m not terribly surprised it takes some people so long to get treatment. Treatment is available, you know, and for many people has been helpful. Marsha Linehan, psychologist and creator of Dialectical Behavioral Therapy, recently came out as being afflicted with the disorder herself. AFAIK she is the only clinician who crafted a theory that deliberately avoided unnecessary villainization of people with the disorder, and her theory grounded in compassion has been borne out by the evidence. It is my hope that we can enter a new era of dealing with this illness, one where we take sufferers of BPD at face value rather than inventing nefarious motives for their behavior in our heads.
People with BPD feel emotions much, much more intensely than healthy people. Perhaps your perceive her emotions as shallow because you don’t understand her behavior, but if she truly isn’t feeling much, she’s probably not BPD. The other stuff might be legit, though - but those are symptoms of a lot of mental health problems.
Olives, by “shallow” I guess I meant that she seems very “flat” often times. Shallow wasn’t the right term. She feels negative emotions very, very strongly. If there is a perceived slight or she feels left out of something, she lashes out. People have often described her as having the emotional maturity of a toddler.
I think it’s much more likely that narcissism is what keeps them out of the doctor’s office. But in a sense, you’re still right. Mental illness is difficult to understand and many (most?) people are comfortable slapping on the crazy label and leaving the sick to fend for themselves. BPD complicates correcting that attitude though, because being naively human and trying to comfort someone with BPD when they’re down is like nursing a demon back to health. You will be a saint while they need you and as soon as you fail to be a saint, you’re the bad guy who took advantage of them while they were down. Is it any wonder so many people consider them hateful?
I do not see how BPD will become less villianized since most of the sufferers refuse to seek help. As stated above, the reason people feel the way they do about them is because of the horrific way they treat others. And if you think you never do anything wrong, well yes, it’s going to be an uphill battle for that stigma to disappear.
This actually squares with my former college roommate - she was in her early 30’s when it finally clicked the problem was her (actually, several other family members were pretty mentally messed up, but she had to own up to her own problems). Now that she’s had stable and sane for about 25 years she doesn’t want to go back to the crazy, although she has to sometimes because now she is the “normal” one, the responsible one, and now caring for her elderly mother and basket-case sibling, albeit mainly by providing housing and some financial support.
BPDs for the most part only change for the better if they decide they want to. They have to experience enough negative consequences from their behavior to make them decide that they need to do things differently.
So it’s not doing them any favors if one protects them from the consequences of their behavior because they’re “ill”. (Parentheses used because using maladaptive behavior automatically is not the best fit for the diagnosis of an illness; that fits rather better for disorders)
I think people need to stop saying this so matter-of-factly. There are a ton of people in society who secretly seek out therapy for their problems. Because even though lately we’ve been singing a good tune about it, being in therapy carries a big stigma. Talking about being in therapy is even worse. Talking about being in therapy for a personality disorder? Don’t hold your breath!
And not only this, a lot of people in therapy do not even know they have a PD. Simply because no one has seen fit to tell them.
I was getting treatment for chronic depression for almost a year before my therapist shared with me her suspicions. If I had stopped getting treatment before then, I only would have known that I was depressed.
Or I could have easily had a psychotherapist who doesn’t believe in PDs. There are many of them out there. They don’t always tell you beforehand.
Then you have the practitioners who refer you out to someone if they are overwhelmed by you. They won’t say you have BPD, though. They will only say they don’t feel they can address your needs very well. So you leave never knowing you have been turned away because you ping as a scary borderline. You just keep thinking you’re depressed and/or anxious. If this happens enough times, you say “fuck it” and stop going. Reinforcing the belief that you don’t want help.
And then there are the practitioners who believe that PDs exist, but they want to get paid for their services. Many insurers will not pay for the kind of long-term therapy that PD sufferers need. So they will diagnose their patients with an assortment of Axis-I diagnoses, never letting their patients know there’s something else going on.
The de-villification of the disorder needs to start in the shrink’s office. But people also need to stop getting all their information from DSM criteria lists and presuming they have the ability to both diagnose and prognose just because they saw “Fatal Attraction” a couple of times. I’m not saying you are like this, Tequila. But I doubt most people in here have actually talked to someone experienced with BPD. I thank Turpentine for her honesty and bravery.