What part of the country were you raised in?
Do you still see your dad often, and do he and his partner live near you?
What did\does your wife think of the situation?
And as before, any religious meddlings go on at some point?
Thanks for the thread, Seven.
Mars
Did you ever feel that the lack of a “female role model” affected you? For instance, did you ever feel like you had trouble relating to or understanding women?
How did you react to homophobia as a child? (At least where I grew up, kids constantly used “gay” as an insult and teased each other about homosexuality and so on.)
And I agree that this was a great idea for a thread - thanks!
Were your father and his lover in the closet? You mentioned not very many people at school knew about your(we really need to come up with common terms to describe homosexual(two male, and two female) households because I keep wanting to say “parents” and I know that’s misleading in this context) home life. 35 years ago I could imagine a good amount of societal pressure to stay in the closet. I’m not sure if your father’s profession(banker if I interpreted your message earlier correctly) would put additional pressure on him to stay in the closet or not. Any bankers out there to give an idea of how a openly gay man in the business around thirty years ago would have been treated? Would it have hurt his career?
What about your father’s partner? Was he closeted? What was his profession, or did he work? What was his relationship like with your mother(his partner’s ex-wife from his perspective)? You said she didn’t really understand the “gay” angle. Did this ever manifest itself in situations which put them in opposing roles?
Did your mother re-marry? What, if so, was your relationship with your step-father on your mother’s side?
Enjoy,
Steven
I don’t think Seven is being defensive at all. I think he’s providing a viewpoint that’s appropriate to the SDMB, since the topic of gay parenting has come up from time to time.
On the other hand your statement seems provocative, and your question as to an agenda is pointless. Of course he has an agenda. His agenda is to answer questions. I thought he made that clear.
Seven, thanks so much for providing this unique opportuntiy! FTR, you don’t seem much defensive to me. I have a bunch of questions, and they’re in increasing difficulty, so if you don’t want to answer some, that’s OK, too.
I’ll need to know as a baseline, if you had other relatives in close contact, what gender and sexual orientation how many and for how long during your first 10 years.
OK, onto the questions:
[ol]
[li]Your relationships, interaction with women. Can you read/understand them well?[/li]
[li]Your relationships, and interactions with men; do you get along with “stereotypical” straight men, share their interests and values?[/li]
[li]How athletic, artistic, emotial, intelligent are you? (1-10 each)[/li]
[li]When did you “decide” you were straight? What norms of sexuality were you exposed to when you were young, mostly?[/li]
[li]What is the incidence of “abnormal” sexuality in your family?[/li]
[li]How do you handle people who ask these questions IRL? :D[/li]
[li]Are you mistaken for gay in largely higher incident?[/li]
[li]How would you rate your emotional growth and maturity during your teenage years (relative to the average)?[/li]
[li]Were your wife or previous girlfriends attracted to aspects of your personality tracable to your upbringing? Did they suspect before you told them?[/li]
[li]Do you ever idly wonder how it would have been different with “normal” parents? What did you wonder about?[/li]
[li]Consider your parents (the male ones) having sex – gross? :p[/li]
[li]Do you feel qualified to extrapolate your situation to being raised by gay women?[/li]
[li]You’ve said you’re straight – did you experiment? Do you still?[/li]
[/ol]
Thanks in advance,
Ace
Yeah, I retract my statement with apologies to Seven.
At what age did you start to realize that sex is not about a man with a man?
Keep up the good work, Seven. I have a few questions.
For the record, here is what I thought sounded a bit defensive (at the time):
It seemed like he avoided the question. It really wasn’t a loaded question, and it still stands, but I guess it could be construed that way and I’m sorry if I offended anybody.
To clarify, Seven, do you consider yourself liberal or conservative, and do you feel that being raised by two gay men has affected your choice?
Have you ever had sex with a man?
Have you ever thought about having sex with a man?
My father and mother split up when I was about 6-7 years old. I spent the first year of this time bounced between the two homes. By time I was 8-9 I was at my fathers most of the time, mothers on weekends (when I agreed to go, heh heh). It was right around this time my father and his partner were living together.
So I would say from about 8-9 years old on.
Not too long before my father met James (his partner) my father and I were invited to a little party. I think it was a super bowl type party, I’m not really sure. Anyway, there were other kids there and about 15 adults. I honestly don’t know who these people were. I think mostly friends from his work. Most of them I hadn’t seen before.
Anyway, I was walking out of the living room where everyone was towards the bathroom which was down the hall. I caught my father kissing another guy. They saw me there, said “whooops” and stopped. I didn’t really think much about it other then “Hey, dad and that guy were kissing. Hmmmm?”
At that time my father wasn’t open with me about it. I think it was an age thing. Like perhaps he didn’t think I would understand it all. My father called a “family meeting” where he explained to both myself and my brother what was up -which was about two weeks later. My whole take on the subject was “you’re gay? Ok,. cool I suppose. What’s for dinner?”
My brother on the other hand had a hard time with the concept. My father told him he was gay and my brother cried and ran out of the room shouting “no,. boo-hoo-hoo”. I have never asked him what the problem was at the time. Why he took it so hard. But for me, I didn’t have a problem with it at all. In fact, years later when my father and I talked about it my father said how odd it was that my brother and I were so different in our response on the subject. My dad was pretty nervous about telling us straight out because he didn’t know what our reaction would be. He told me my response made him feel better about the whole thing and allowed him to focus on my brother.
Considering most of my friends parents were still married, the time my mother and father got divorced I felt my family was different. There was only one of my good friends at school who’s parents were divorced and living apart.
I never really felt like his lifestyle was wrong. I just accepted it.
My father was raised Presbyterian, his partner was raised Morman if I recall. My father didn’t really go to church except for christmas mass and a few other holidays.
Later, the two started going to a Unity church a few times a month. The two believed in a loving god that cared for it’s “children” and as long as you did right this god would watch out for you.
There was no open prayer in the home. No grace before dinner. Nothing like that. My father didn’t really bring religion up because he felt it was up to the person to decide their faith. James spoke with me about it from time to time, how he viewed the relationship between god and man, but it wasn’t forced. I was allowed to either accept their faith, take on a different one, or ignore the whole thing.
Funny stories. Oh man. Too many to list I guess.
Considering my father and his partner were in the lifestyle, most their friends were as well. Any reason to have a party was good enough for them. Parties normally contained a center point (super bowl, Halloween, thanksgiving, labour day, Miss America, etc). We’ve clear the house to make way for the people, then start putting together the food and drinks.
Miss America was one of the best of all their regular parties. Picture 7 or 8 gay men in a room commenting on the dresses, hair, and vocal talents of the contestants. My father was fairly manly. He didn’t have any of the stereotypical “gay” traits. I can’t say the same for some of his friends. Some were rather flamboyant and caddy. So, perhaps that might help you picture the scene (think toned down versions of Nathan Lane’s character in the Birdcage) All were very funny though and by the end of the day our faces would hurt from laughing so hard.
At one point we lived on Capitol Hill off Broadway in Seattle (which was known for it’s rather large gay population). Every year the gay pride parade would go down Broadway. I was woken one Saturday morning by my father shouting “get up, get up. Dykes on bikes! You’re going to miss them!”
One story my friend loves to tell. I was in 9th grade and it was Friday. I had a few friends over to spend the night. My father/s went out for a little bit. My friends and I were in the living room watching TV. My dad walks in the door dressed in leather (pants, coat, black t-shirt) looking a little overheated. He says “Remind me to never go dancing in leather again… Wheeeew”. I think it was that day I was nominated for the kid with the coolest dad among my friends.
I grew up in Seattle USA.
Both my father and his partner died of AIDS in the mid 90’s. James first, my father about a year after. They managed to survive their group of friends by several years.
My father/s and I were very close. After I had a place of my own we always remained in contact and spent time just hanging out. My father and his partner took a short break from each other (about a year or so) and during this time I still remained in contact with James. We’d have lunch and make dinner together. You know, stuff you’d do with any other parent after you move out.
In fact, a follow up story for Scylla… After I was 21 my father and I met after work for a beer. He picked a bar that was between our workplaces. Of course, it was a gay bar but he though being close to 5 it would be empty. It wasn’t. We got there and it was PACKED. We got a beer and found a place to hang out and chat. A couple of guys tried to pick me up and my dad played the dad role. “hey, leave him alone. he’s got a girlfriend.” heh heh.
My wife and my father/s got along really well. When we’d visit, she and James would run off to the kitchen together for “girl talk”.
I haven’t had one girlfiend over the years that felt uncomfortable about the situation.
As for religion, I think I covered that pretty good a few posts up (I know this question was asked before I posted that). I could go into more detail if you want.
I don’t think I had any ill effects from the lack of a female role model. My fathers partner was a little motherly, so I think I got all the female nurturing bits from him. Dad would say “it’s cold out, put your coat on”. James would say “oh it’s freezing out dear, you’re going to catch a cold. let me get you a coat.” (see where I’m going with this? heh heh)
I’ve never had a problem relating to girls and women. In fact, I would almost happen to guess my upbringing has helped me relate more to women. Racist and sexist jokes were not allowed in the house. My father/s tried to teach me that all people are equal and anyone can do anything they want no matter what sex or race they were. I had a handful or girls I considered my best friends in high school. We’d spend the night at each others houses and hang out all the time. I don’t know how much of this was because I was raised in a gay household or just because my father/s refused to allow me to become sexist or racist.
Even now, my best friend is a woman (my wife) and most of my best long term friends have been women.
Homophobia… hmm? There was a little gay bashing type comments I’d hear from time to time. I pretty much stood up against it. Someone would say “he’s a faggot” and I’d combat that with “how would you know and why would it matter?” The term “that’s gay” wasn’t used but when I hear it now I pretty much ask “how can a [insert object or action] be gay?”
I did come to a guys rescue once at a dance club. He was being harrased for acting gay (which he was) but I think I would have come to his defense anyway. 4 guys against one from no reason. I couldn’t allow that to happen.
Mostly, people I know don’t have a problem with sexuality.
My father was “in the closet” to some people at the office. He was a vice president of a bank and involved in some major projects. The CEO/president knew because the two were good friends, but I think for the most part he kept to himself on the matter. I do not know how it would have been accepted back then. I suppose he would have been ok. Most the people he worked with that I knew seemed very cool. But you never know.
Outside of work was a different story.
My father was somewhat private with his personal affairs around people. I didn’t know he was mostly colourblind until I was about 21. So I wouldn’t find it strange for someone like that to not say to the checkout clerk “hi, i’m gay”. heh heh. But he attended things like Gay pride parades, he worked extra time for northwest AIDS and other gay related foundations.
His partner on the other hand was OUT! He was a hairdresser by trade and an artist. Most people, by using stereotypical deduction, would figure he was gay.
At first, James and my mother disliked each other. They avoided talking on the phone, didn’t really talk in person, I think I could understand that even in a straight situation. But, I would suspect the whole thing made my mother very uncomfortable.
There was a break through in the relationship between the two later when my mother returned from being out of the country for a year. It was around thanksgiving and my mother had no one to spend it with. I had already planned to be at my fathers, my brother was going to be at his wifes families. I told my father/s I felt bad for her because this is a real family time and I know she’ll feel really lonely. Without hesitating James was on the phone to her asking if she wanted to come over for thanksgiving, how welcome she was in their home, how they’d cook and she didn’t have to worry about a thing. It was very sweet. She declinded but later and ended up going to her mothers house. She did tell me later after both had died that she still kicks herself for not going over that day. I think she wanted to know them better because they were such a huge part of my life but pride just got in the way.
She never remarried. She had a couple of long term relationships. I’ve never really known any of them well. One guy I rather liked though. He seemed to do a lot to bring my mother out of her shell.
Not much contact. My father was adopted, the mother was dead and the father was a real ass. He had two brothers both of which were jerks. So there wasn’t much contact on that end. My mothers side of the family I didn’t much care for. Her father was dead and I never understood her mother. As far as I knew all of those people were straight.
My fathers partner was in very close contact with his family and short of his brother (who was an annoying LDS preacher man) we kept in touch and spent time with them.
We “adopted” the rest of our family.
Your relationships, interaction with women. Can you read/understand them well?
I think most have gone fine. 90% of the relationships ended because of their cheating. The other 10% we just agreed to end and move on.
Regular friendships with women are just fine.
Your relationships, and interactions with men; do you get along with “stereotypical” straight men, share their interests and values?
Well,. I’m not much into sports and cars if that’s what you mean. My father/s LOVED sports. Every major ball game turned into a handful of people at our home shouting at the TV (and eating pesto).
But, I’ve had some great, long lasting friendships with men.
That said, most of my male friends aren’t into the whole stereotypical male thing.
How athletic, artistic, emotial, intelligent are you? (1-10 each)
I’m nto athletic. I never have been. I don’t really like sports at all. If you want a 1-10 I would have to say a 2.
I’m a total art spaz. Painting, sclupture, music, etc. I’ve have to say a 10.
I think for the most part I’m emotionaly stable. I wouldn’t know how to rate that one.
As for brains. I was put into the TAG program when I was young and almost everything put in front of me I can tackle (excpet spelling. heh heh. I’ve never really gotten along with words)
When did you “decide” you were straight? What norms of sexuality were you exposed to when you were young, mostly?
I don’t think I ever decided. I’ve never been atracted to male body parts (I find body hair kind of nasty) and as long as I can remember I’ve enjoyed looking at women.
I don’t really recall being exposed to sexuality when I was young. My dad did explain the birds and bees in a fairly regular way. (perhaps I don’t quite get your question on this one)
What is the incidence of “abnormal” sexuality in your family?
I don’t know. I’ve not heard of anything really strange from the family rumour mill.
How do you handle people who ask these questions IRL? 
I try to answer them fairly straight faced (if they’re being serious)
Are you mistaken for gay in largely higher incident?
I’ve never had a guy give me his phone number if that’s the question. Except for the time when I was in the bar with dad (see above) I’ve never been hit on by gay men and none of my co-workers ever though I was.
How would you rate your emotional growth and maturity during your teenage years (relative to the average)?
I think I was giving a pretty fair backbone of support to hit those years head on. I was allowed to express myself any way I wanted. I had people at home I could talk to about anything (from drugs to the best kind of sex oils). What more could someone hope for during those years?
I think I faired pretty well.
Those times are hard for anyone and I’m not really sure I could say I had it better or worse just because dad was gay. But I do know our openess on that subject left the door open for other topics.
Were your wife or previous girlfriends attracted to aspects of your personality tracable to your upbringing? Did they suspect before you told them?
A long running joke my wife and I have is she’ll ask me when colour I would paint a room or where the couch and chairs should go in the new house because I was the one raised by gay men.
I always get stuck making the gravy and sauces in the kitchen. heh heh.
My girlfriends and wife have all told me at one point they like how open I am on subjects. I’m not sure if that is just how I am or if its learned.
Do you ever idly wonder how it would have been different with “normal” parents? What did you wonder about?
Nope. I look at how my brother tunred out and he is Mr boring average joe. He has no creative outlet, he’s not much of a risk taker, his life would bore me. He was raised by my mother.
I’m happy with who I am and where my life is. The only thing I would wish is for my father/s to die like most everyone elses fathers. Old age, cancer at 80, ect. not AIDS at 50.
Consider your parents (the male ones) having sex – gross? 
Heh heh. I have an easier time picturing my dads having sex then my mother and father having sex. LOL
Do you feel qualified to extrapolate your situation to being raised by gay women?
No.
You’ve said you’re straight – did you experiment? Do you still?
Experiment? With men? Nope. I mean there was I think the regular bit boys go through when they are in grade school, but no, nothing more then that.
I’ve been involved in 2 foursomes in my life (2 guys, 2 girls) but those were pretty straight forward straight sex. To be honest, in both cases I was so happy to be surrounded by these two sexy girls, I forgot another guy was even in the room. heh heh
That said, I’ve never really been in the situation where it was me and another guy and it was sexual. I should say I don’t find the penis an ugly item. I’m not grossed out seeing someone elses. I’ve just never had a desire to put one in my mouth.
As for my regular sexual freedom in my relationships. Yeah man. I think I’ve done everyting one can think of that wouldn’t get you put in jail.
I never thought sex was only male/male. Given the talk around grade school playgrounds and the sex-ed classes, I knew what was up.
But, I did have one understanding far before many people my age -that a gay relationship is not only about sex, it’s about love like any other relationship.
But in day to day life, I just called him James.
When James died, my father and I were in the hospital about 20 minutes after he passed. There was a very good chance we wouldn’t have gotten into the room because we weren’t “family”. We were lucky that the Dr on call didn’t have a problem and realized the situation.
Picking up his ashes was also a slight problem. We weren’t next of kin or family. I seem to recall my father having to get James sister to sign something. an extra hassle a mourning spouse shouldn’t have to deal with IMO.
My father couldn’t get James on his good medical insurance. At the end of the day they had to buy insurance for him. If they were married it wouldn’t have been a problem. Fill out an extra form, have a couple of bucks taken from his paycheck and it would have been over with.