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I like the ER docs, too. When I have to take a prisoner to ER, I always warn them that they can treat me like shit, but NEVER piss off the doctor!
We once took a guy in who had been playing chicken with cars on the highway (he was a wee bit drunk). He started yelling at the doctor to “get his faggot hands off of me”. The doctor dropped the leg he was examining (which we later found had a small fracture), then proceeded to suture a head laceration without anesthetic.
LOL! You know, I always thought that Steven Bochco (I know that’s spelled wrong, but I don’t want to look it up) put that show on out of pure ego, just to prove that he could get anything he damned well pleased on the air, no matter how ridiculous.
Howdy Badge,
I would like to join the others who have thanked you for this informative thread.
You said:
My Question:
what kind of weight do you mean? As a mental thought to yourself that this is not an average citizen…but one deserving of a little more respect?
(and I do see the “US vs. Them” mentality this statement implies)
I also have my USMC sticker up, not for cops to look at, but because I am proud of my service.
(I did however remove my “One Shot, One Kill, Marine Scout Sniper” sticker as being too intimidating for average citizens.)
Stranger OUT
I would expect that one reason a military ID carries weight is that it indicates that the subject has a commanding officer. With many military people, a threat to contact their CO would make them shape up faster than anything the city authorities can usually bring to bear on an offender.
Just my guess, though. And my guess doesn’t apply to everyone in the armed services, or to those no longer in the service who just have stickers on their car. Badge will elaborate with actual facts, I’m sure.
I will await his answer, but I want to be sure you know I meant no insult. My second-to-last sentence in the previous post was supposed to indicate that, but on review it fails to.
I was just imagining that an officer, encountering somebody who is on leave and violating the law, would see military discipline as a way to straighten the guy out. The cop could save himself some paperwork but still be assured that the soldier (or sailor, or whatever) would tone down his behavior, merely by reminding the subject that his CO will find out what he was doing while on leave.
I’m sure, if the serviceman had an exemplary record while on base, that threat would mean little. But I also know that a lot of the guys that screw up on leave screw up on duty as well. They might be eager to avoid giving their commander one more reason to treat them like a screwup. And the civil authorities might use that to the advantage of the civil peace.
Again, this only covers part of a cop’s encounters with military and former military personnel. I have no idea what Badge’s comment may have meant specifically, so I’ll let him try to pull my foot out of my mouth for me.
I took no direct offence, but would have appreciated your clarification if I had.
Some Junior Military (by “junior” I mean less than 18 months in service) personnel can be a real pain in the butt…and in their case, I would invoke the “Commanding Officer Reminder”…
at any rate, I believe we are hijacking Badge’s thread…which was not my intent…
LOL, shutting up now…standing by for Badge’s response!
I’m constantly amazed at how little respect there is in our society for law enforcement these days in the “media”, it’s disturbing. I spent quite a while in the .mil overseas - believe me, “things are different” in other countries with respect to the Police and citizens. Interesting thread.
I’m certainly no angel but I don’t take a speeding ticket or the like personal - it happens. Oddly, I don’t speed anymore and the speeding tickets have dropped off dramatically
What does piss me off (still) are the various “speed traps” which are merely a form of revenue enhancement for certain communities. Speed traps and other forms of chickens*&t only give law enforcement a bad image and I hope that area of concern gets addressed somehow.
I’ve always had good experiences on the (few) traffic stops experienced - as several have mentioned, being polite w/out putting the kneepads on can’t hurt. Know your rights, but don’t get snippy.
I would say in my experience that being active duty military usually helps, (within reason, I imagne DUI’s and wife beaters need not apply) I’ve no idea exactly why, though.
Metal’s question reminded me of something I’ve thought of in the past badge; aren’t those folks with the marijuana leaf decals on their vehicles pretty much saying, “Good fishing here, Officer?”
Another question occurs, based on one of your responses above. When I was a kid, 35-40 years ago, I knew a lot of the local cops. But Houston was still a somewhat provincial really big town then.
It’s now a much more cosmopolitan, international big city, and I don’t know my local cops at all. Even when I drove a cab in Austin in the '70s, I came to know a lot of the cops, because when you saw a pair of headlights at 4:00 AM on a Tuesday morning in Austin in 1976, 98% of the time it was a cab or a cop (if you only saw one, it was a cab).
So, I wonder, do my local cops even know who I am? Much less, who I’m sleeping with and whether or not the bucks are OK?
I just wanted to add my thanks to those of everyone else on this board for providing us with such an insightful look into the ways and means of policing. I have known a fair number of cops, some of whom I would trust with my life, and some of whom would steal candy from a baby and then plant a dime bag in the carriage. I’m glad to see that the good outweigh the bad.
Anyway, I have a couple of questions about traffic stops. First, if you catch me speeding in the lefthand lane of a highway, would you prefer I pulled over to the left, or the right? If we stop on the left shoulder, my car shields you from getting hit by passing cars (which I know happens) but its much harder to merge back into traffic afterwards. Similarly, on surface streets, if you bust me on a major thoroughfare, do you mind if I drive a few extra blocks to get onto a side street and out of the way? I see an awful lot of traffic jams caused by people who just stop where they were when the saw the mars lights, even if its just the worst place imaginable.
Thanks again for taking the time to answer all of our questions. If I’m ever in your neck of the woods I’ll blow through your town at 15 over so we can meet in person
This was about the person at the red light with the angry ambulance driver. I drove an ambulance for 5 years, and so can offer a bit of insight here. ( [Badge, if that’s cool with you ).
I can only speak for New York State DOH and DOT Laws and Guidelines. When approaching a red light, an ambulance is permitted to run that red light ONLY AFTER COMING TO A COMPLETE STOP. Now then, for the situation described way back on Page 1.
The rule of the road with an ambulance is that you Pass on the Left. That includes driving down the yellow stripes in the middle of the road, AND ( dire as this is to do…) driving into the opposing lane of traffic with extreme care.
Any ambulance driver who came up close behind you waited on you to move was in fact operating their rig improperly. If they had lights and sirens going ( Code 3 in most states ), then they are in a high state of emergency; Code 1 responses are usually the case ( no lights, no sirens ). Our County 911 Dispatcher gives us enough to go on, that we typically make the judgement call ourselves. Now and then, we would be toned out on a stated Code 1 call. Makes for a safer trip all around.
The ambulance driver was a jerk,and sounds a wee bit unprofessional to boot. I used to become rather overwrought after some calls, but during the call? Either you behave as a professional, or man don’t step into an ambulance !
How many uniforms do you have (for daily use - not talking about dress uniforms here)? Do you have one for every day of the week? Are they machine washable? Do you ever have to get them altered to fit better? How long do they last?
Do you guys get department-issued shoes - or can you pick your own provided they’re a certain color/style? How comfortable are they?
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I don’t think that anything that will affect you in Canada. However, (at least in Washington state) if you don’t take care of an infraction, your privilege to drive in Washington will be suspended. If you ever drive into Washington again and get stopped, you will be arrested for driving while suspended (and your car will probably be impounded). If you don’t take care of a criminal citation (such as DUI), then a warrant would be issued for your arrest. That has no power in Canada, but again if you come back into Washington you could end up in jail.
All of our officers do carry AR-15 assault rifles, and the members of our Special Operations Team carry an extra magazine with armor-piercing rounds. The LA bank robbery caused a lot of agencies in the US to put more high-power weapons in the hands of patrol.
We also have one “less-lethal” gun that fires batons and pepper rounds for disabling violent subjects without having to shoot them or get in close to subdue them.
I mean that I have a certain amount of automatic respect for anyone who has served in the military, and I acknowledge their pride in that service. You’re right, there is a feeling of being kindred to the military, partially because law enforcement is usually organized in a paramilitary style.
That respect might be just enough to make me decide to not issue a ticket if the question of discretion is a close one. The various “I support the cops stickers” do not have that effect.
As to the question of “contacting the CO” raised in the next few posts, I have used that rarely, and never on a traffic stop. When dealing with a military person (and they are easy to spot, since they are about the only people who invariably call me “Sir”), just asking for their CO’s name is usually enough to get them to straighten out. I have only actually called a CO one time, because the girl refused to give me her CO’s name and just absolutely refused to calm down and go along with the program (and it all started with just her parking in a handicapped parking spot).
I’m running short of time right this second, so I’d like to comment on this, and ask a few questions of my own. I’m not going to get the chance to peruse this whole thread beforehand. Sorry.
My father worked for the city of Louisville Fire Dept for 26 years, and a great deal of that time included working with police. His advice to me was to acknowledge that you see the police car (emergency lights work fine for this, according to him). You can then proceed to a place where you feel safe, including a public parking lot. If this has changed, Badge, please set me straight.
A few questions:
Using the fire department example above, locally (Louisville, KY) the city fire departments tend to almost despise volunteer departments. Is there any kind of animosity between patrolmen (ie, REAL cops) and, say, correctional officers? What about security guards? Do police officers tend to have the same disdain for them as civilians seem to?
How frustrated does it make the average officer, in your opinion, when someone stopped for a traffic violation asks to see the radar readout and check the calibration dates for the gun? Or tries to throw out a name, such as “my brother’s a cop?”
Along the same lines, in your experience, what is the “general” attitude among the force with people who, when stopped by an unmarked car, request a marked one, as well? Do the steps that civilians take to ensure their own safety resonate in a positive or negative manner?
While I do not want to start a debate on the use of deadly force, I wonder something. Again, locally, we had a gentleman who was arrested in his house on a drugs charge. He was patted down, and handcuffed with his hands behind him. He then allegedly produced a box-cutter from somewhere, and brandished it towards the police (the effectiveness of which seems nil, considering where his hands were). An officer responded by shooting the man. 11 times. He missed with the 12th shot. In your professional opinion, does that constitute ‘excessive force?’ I realize that, without knowing all specifics, you really can’t comment on whether it was justified. But it seems to me, IMHO, that ELEVEN times in a touch much for someone with his hands cuffed behind him.
Pisses me off, too, and I agree that this gives us a bad name. I thoroughly believe that the intent of traffic enforcement is to increase public safety, NOT to make money.
I’m fortunate that my department lives by that philosophy. My Chief just made a big push to get the city council to add a new officer to the budget, and at no point did he use “added traffic ticket revenue” as a justification.
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The rule is to pull to the right. It’s safest, even if it takes a while to get there. Of course, if circumstances prevent it, just use your best judgement.
Unless you can’t get to the side of the road (like if there are parked cars all along the curb), it is best to stop as soon as it is safe. We turn on the lights where we want you to stop (picking a good stop location is very important to officer safety) and don’t really want you to pick a new location.
Of course, if you really think that it is unsafe to pull over right away, use your best judgement. However, you may have a very suspicious cop to whom you will have to explain your decision.
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