So, everybody’s a suspect, until the computer says otherwise?
Nice.
1984 came a little late, but it’s re-assuring to know that it’s here…
How about bar-coding people - maybe a small tattoo on their forearms… Wouldn’t that be convenient?
I once reported a possible jumper on the SF-Oakland bridge - the dispatched seemed more interested in me than the jumper - I gave her my name, address, and SSN, which stopped her questions - this was c. 1980 - did they have a computer to consult then?
Don’t know if they ever sent anybody…
How many bad guys get caught a year on regular traffic stops?
PITA putting a bullet proof vest on everyday just because …
And you will stand up and donate $$$ to support the cop who let the mass murder slip past because he didn’t run the numbers and got fired for it? You want Badge to catch bad guys or not?
Worlds Round,
It’s not Fair,
It’s just Damn Round!!!
Hrm. I’ve been meaning to post this question for a while. I wasn’t TOO pissed off about it, as I understood that I was acting suspiciously, and that the cop had good reason to believe I was up to no good… But still, I WAS pissed.
Here’s the situation:
I’m a night person. Left to my own devices, I get up at 2 p.m. and go to bed at dawn. I can’t help this, it’s just the way I am.
I WAS left to my own devices, as I had just recently been laid off (silicon valley, 2001, etc) and had a nice severance package. I basically took the summer off. One night, around 2 a.m., I’m hungry, and go to a semi-ok diner (a step and a half up from denny’s… not much to choose from at this hour). For some reason the newspaper racks in front of this diner have been removed recently. No problem, I’ll walk across a long parking lot, and across the street to a gas station with a mini-mart to buy one.
I’m walking back (ok, another weird thing. I walk fast. Everyone has bitched to me about this since I was about 8 years old). Walking through the parking lot, cop shines a light on me. The light follows me for a while. I’m thinking “uh, this is kind of weird”. I walk up to his window and say “is there some sort of problem, officer?”
He says “You’re walking awfully fast”. Then goes on to say that he thinks I’m on speed. I calmly explain the newspaper situation, etc.
I’m cooperative the entire way through. He calls in for a partner, who is supposedly a speed expert. I’m getting more pissed off (but now showing it). Again and AGAIN and AGAIN he tells me it will be much easier if I just admit I’m a speed freak and not waste any more of our time.
Partner shows up. asks if they can search my car. (in retrospect, I should have said no). But I said yes, as there was nothing they’d actually find in there. Whatever. I just want a burger. Partner is rooting around my car. I’m watching him. Cop then asks me “Why do you keep watching him? Afraid he’s going to find something?”. No, I’m watching him because a stranger is rooting around my car!
Of course, they find nothing, and give me the whole “you’re free to go” thing.
I’m getting to the questions, I promise 
At one point, he shined a flashlight in my eyes and claimed my pupils were dilated. I said “well, i’m not a doctor, but I doubt that they are”. (dilated pupils are a symption of meth usage, I am guessing, or he was just again fucking with me… he was just trying to get a confession out of me and was lying about that).
questions:
is the lying about “dilated pupils” a common tactic they teach?
what would have happened if I had told them they could not search my car?
Should the officer have apologized to me, or at least explained why I was detained for half an hour?
Was this guy a total asshole, or do you have to be a total asshole to actually get confessions out of suspicious behavior which, i admit, I exhibited (albeit completely innocently)
Any other insights into this strange incident would be greatly appreciated.
Sorry. When I stressed the stop part, I wasn’t refering to you. It’s just one of my pet peeves that people just slow down, which often forces me to make an unsafe pass.
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It sounds to me like you did the right thing, and the officer just didn’t think about the situation at all. An officerneeds to apply a little bit of common sense, and not just go 100% by the book.
I agree that it is always possible. Pretty much everything we do can get us sued. After all, our department/city/county/state is a great target with deep pockets. Personally, I’ve never let the fear of being sued affect me, other than to be extra careful. I would never hesitate to offer aid because of that.
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I’ve heard those rumors over the years as well, but I have no experience with it. The Masons aren’t very common in my part of the country, but they may have more pull on the East Coast of the US.**
[/quote]
It’s not so much that we consider everyone a suspect - we just don’t know who is and who isn’t. You would not believe the number of warrants in the system at any time.
**
Personally, I prefer the use of the ID chips that veterinarians use. Inject one in the neck of every newborn, and we’d never have problems with ID again!
I hear a similar complaint from people all the time. While the call-taker is getting all of your information, the dispatcher is already sending the appropriate people to the scene. With an emergency call, there is no delay while one is getting the necessary information.
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Actually, lying about just about anything is a common tactic that we’re taught (I believe that this thread originally spun off from a GD thread on cops lying).
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Well, they probably couldn’t have searched it without your consent. They probably would have continued to screw with you, though.
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Cops usually don’t apologizem, even when they are clearly in the wrong (I think it’s based on a feeling that they would be giving up some control or something like that). At very least, they should have thanked you for being cooperative.
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Being a cop involves being an asshole sometimes (I just worry about the ones who think they have to be that way all of the time). He probably honestly thought you were under the influence and was just doing what he thought he should do (though I have to wonder how long into this he had to realize that you weren’t tweaking). Unfortunately, the job isn’t always nice and good people get bothered along with the people we should be going after.
Since he didn’t, let me apologize for interrupting your evening, zuma
Questions along this line have turned up in the general questions forum recently, and no one really had a good answer.
Basically, what do you do if you are not sure that a person behaving like a police officer is really a police officer? Most agencies advise drivers that that if they have doubts about stopping for someone driving an unmarked car who is trying to pull them over, they should continue–at a reasonable speed, maybe with flashers on–to some well-lit public place. A real cop will understand the problem, and a bad guy probably won’t stick around.
But suppose you are confronted face to face by someone in plain clothes who flashes a badge and issues orders. Maybe he just asks you what you’re doing. Maybe tells you to pull out your wallet and show him ID. Maybe he tells you to come with him. (Think of “Mystic River,” if you’ve seen it.)
What are the citizen’s rights here? Badges can be bought in junk stores, and picture IDs can be faked. Criminals have impersonated police to kidnap children and murder coeds. Can you demand that he summon a uniformed officer in a marked car? If you walk/run away, are you resisting arrest? If he tries to force you into his car and you defend yourself, are you assaulting (maybe even killing) an officer?
Obviously circumstances have something to do with this. If you have just robbed a 7-11, you might have different rights and expectations than if you are just carrying your groceries across the supermarket parking lot. But how much cooperation do you owe somebody that you are suspicious of? How do you protect yourself against an impersonator and at the same time not open yourself to charges from a real cop?
Got another question. i dont know if it was already asked but
How do cops feel about internal affairs? do they hate them, accept them, like them or what? If they do hate them for having to stalk, trick and discipline them as police does this experience give them any empathy as to why the public at large usually are not happy to see police officers for the same reason?
I missed this the first time around, and I’m glad it’s back!
A couple of questions for you-
- Is there an incident (on duty) you wish you could redo or handle differently?
- Do you find yourself overbearing and/or controlling with family members, etc.? You mentioned it is a trait you see in other cops, and I’m just curious, more than anything.
2a) If so, how does your wife/family handle it? - Do you wish you had chosen a different career or field?
- Do you find yourself acting as a cop even off duty? (ie, they way you interact with other people & situations)
- We want stories!! Please please please!
I realize all cops aren’t the same but maybe you can give me some advise. My SIL is a cop, good husband, good father, but just emotionally cold as hell. Drives me crazy. You can’t get close to the guy. I’ve been told he “loves” our family and enjoys being with us, but the only time he ever really cuts lose is when he’s with other law enforcement officers. What’s the deal with this?
Sorry to resurrect this thread yet again, but I have a hypothetical that I’ve been wondering about for some time.
Suppose I’m driving and I collide with an animal - say a dog or a deer or something. I get out of my car to inspect the damage and find the poor beast still alive but with fatal injuries and suffering horribly. I pull out my shotgun and blast the poor beast to put it out of its misery.
If you witnessed this would you charge me with a crime? If so, what? Reckless discharge of a firearm?
I’m afraid there is no clear answer. I think demanding a uniformed officer be present is a good start. I would never get in a car with someone that you aren’t sure is a cop, and I believe that resisting would be reasonable (resisting arrest or obstructing a law enforcement officer require that you reasonably know that the guy is a real cop).
It is a tough situation. My best advise is to put your personal safety ahead of any fear of legal consequences. Another old cop saying: It is better to be tried by twelve than be carried by six.
Opinions vary, of course. My department just has one Lieutenant who handles IA investigations when they are needed, so it’s no big deal here.
In departments with a full-time IA division, it tends to be more intense. Because that is all they do, I think that they tend to dig harder and look for problems before anyone files a complaint.
I’ve talked to cops from agencies like this, and they all pretty much hate Internal Affairs. Cops like to think that we can do no wrong and don’t like it if anyone questions what they do. It’s an ego thing, once again.
With those who don’t like IA, I don’t think that deal with them provides any empathy. They tend to look at it as two totally different things: we’re dealing with bad guys, IA is messing with the good guys.
Personally, I think IA is a good thing. We carry a lot of power, and someone has to make sure that it is used correctly. And there is nothing that I hate more than a dirty cop.
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There are lots of them. This is the most recent: I’m pretty good at reading people and know how to act to get cooperation. The last time I had an IA investigation was when I tried to intimidate an argumentative kid. I thought he would back down, but I misread him and he blew up on me and I had to take him to the ground. His parents filed a complaint (my actions were ruled as justified). But if I had used a different approach, I would have avoided a lot of problems.
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No, that’s not my style. Actually, my wife complains that I’m too easy-going and I tend to avoid confrontation in private life (I get enough arguments at work - I don’t need them the rest of the time).
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Once in a while, but not 99% of the time. I really enjoy what I do.
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See #2.
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OK, here’s an old favorite that a friend reminded me of recently. I was just a rookie (maybe 2 years on the job), driving around downtown one night. We had a crazy guy called Little John in town (about 5’6", mean as hell, regularly beat the hell out of guys twice his size). He suddenly jumped out in the road right in front of my car. I get out and see that he’s pulling on a pair of leather gloves. I ask him what’s up, and he says, “Dave, I love you like a brother, but I’m going to kill you!” (he just had an arguement with his girlfriend and he wanted someone to fight). As he approaches, I see he’s got a knife on his belt. I tell him that I won’t fight him unless he gives me the knife. He tells me to fuck off, so I pulled my gun and pointed in his face and told him that if he didn’t give it to me, I’d kill him (I knew that he had used knives in fights before). That startled him, so he handed me the knife. I put away my gun and said that we could fight now, but I’d rather just drive him to the tavern and buy him a beer and hear what’s upsetting him. He thought that was a good idea, and got in the back seat of my patrol car. I then drove him to jail and booked him. Oh, and he also had three baggies of marijuana in his pocket!
what exactly happened, the kid became violent when you yelled at him?
This reminds me of another question, is it fair to say that the way police treat the public is basically all an act to gain compliance, that it is nothing personal? you seem pretty easy going and considerate here on SDMB but i am sure that you also scream at and bully terrified, confused people all the time during interrogations. Is that all an act and you don’t mean it personally?
Badge ,
First of all, I’d like to add my thanks for this fascinating thread! One of my cousins is a police officer in New Mexico, formerly K9, currently SWAT, so it’s really interesting to hear what things can be like for you guys!
I guess I have two questions for you:
I’ve been extremely lucky in my few encounters with police officers, for the most part. But there was one time when I was pulled over for speeding when I was only 2-3 miles over the speed limit and was being passed by everyone in the other lane (I was in the right lane). When he pulled me over, he had been going in the opposite direction, and pulled a U-Turn with his lights on (into the left lane). Being a good citizen, I slowed down to just under the speed limit and pulled to the right slightly to allow him more room to get by. Which is when he got behind me and pulled me over. I was shocked, since his behavior up until that point made it seem like he had suddenly been diverted to something important (thus the U-Turn in fairly heavy traffic). The cop gave me some sort of minor non-traffic-related ticket (probably $30, max) as a “warning.” What was up with that? Did he really pull a U-Turn in busy traffic to give a $30 ticket to someone in the right lane who wasn’t driving recklessly? Do you think he took my pulling over towards the right as an admission of guilt? When he asked if I knew why he’d pulled me over I said, in all honestly, that I had absolutely no idea. This happened years ago, but has always bothered me.
OK, now my other question. Two nights in a row this week at about the same time of evening (5:45-6pm-ish, a busy time of the evening Rush here in Chicago) I’ve seen traffic stops about a block apart that seemed really odd. In each case I saw the driver being handcuffed and placed in the back of the nearest police car (at least one of these events had 2 police cars at the scene, if not both). Both times the front doors of the cars were standing open, with one of the officers obviously looking around inside. I have no idea what led to these events, but it seems like excessive force for a “simple” traffic stop (speeding, running a red light [which, in Chicago, tends to be very common], etc.). Do you have any idea what this could have been? I have to admit that part of the reason I’m so curious is that both of these incidents occurred near my apartment building - one of them was just outside my building - so I’m slightly worried.
Thank you again for doing this thread, Badge , and keep up the great work!
Engel
First off, I’d like to say this has been a great read, so thanks Badge!
And here are my questions:
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Do you carry a revolver or an automatic? If a revolver, why?
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Hypothetical situation, but say you see someone being beat up, and you intervene on their behalf (physically), could the aggressor later charge you with assault?