[QUOTE=FriarTed]
At the beginning & the end of the 1980s, I was a John Bircher but AFAIK our chapters had no Mormons. However, I know that Ezra Taft Benson was on the main JBS council with Robert Welch, and that one of our more popular books was
written by W. Cleon Skousen, who apparently had a more active Mormon teaching ministry than I knew at the time.
That said, did you have any experience with Birchite influence in the LDS or vice versa?
[/quote]
I didn’t encounter any Birchism growing up in Maryland. In Utah, however, it’s definitely there, especially outside the Salt Lake Valley. Rural Utah is as isolationist, conservative (not the neo variety) and just generally Unabomber-y as it gets. It’s especially pervasive among older Mormon men.
I’ll answer anything I know. Keep in mind that I’m only 32, so my own first-hand experience is limited to the most recent version of the Temple ceremonies.
That is accurate. It’s made clear that Jesus was pierced through the hands, and then, fearing the weight of his body might cause the flesh of the hands to tear, he was nailed again, through the wrist.
Incidentally, the sign to which you refer shows up in the film Conspiracy Theory, when Julia Roberts asks Mel Gibson if “they” have a “secret handshake.” The first time I saw the movie, I was literally gaping. It’s either a coincidence or a very dark, very inside joke by someone involved in the movie.
[QUOTE=Beware of Doug]
I know many LDS share some Danish heritage, due to long ago Mormon immigration from Denmark. But across the US most people of Scandinavian extraction are either Swedish or Norwegian. Question, then: are LDS the largest single group of Danish-Americans?
[/QUOTE]
Heh. Beats the shit out of me. But I wouldn’t be surprised. Incidentally, there are lots and lots and lots of Mormons whose ancestors were Swedish and Norwegian as well. It’s almost a running joke, the commonness of names such as Benson, Swenson, Sorenson, etc. And the average Utah Mormon of pioneer stock is quite Aryan looking.
[QUOTE=NAF1138]
I am not sure what my question is, but would you mind talking a little about those doctrines (and other similar outsider doctirnes). How many of them do the church currently push, how fundamental are they to the relegion etc. I hear talk of such doctrines exising, but always in tones of voice that make me suspicious of their valitity. I would kinda like to know what is correct, so I know misinformation and ignorance when I see it.
[/quote]
Internally, the Mormon Church still teaches these doctrines as central to the gospel. It’s only to the public that they’re downplayed. To fully describe these doctrines would require a lengthy book, one which has been written already, better than I could. In short, a central LDS belief is that God was once a man, on a planet like ours, who became a God through obedience in His mortal life. Mormons believe that they, too, can become gods and goddesses on their own planets, a reward referred to as “exaltation.”
Others are more outlandish. Ask me some time about how God came down from heaven, married the Virgin Mary, and impregnated her to father Jesus.
Officially it’s been over since the late 19th Century. However, there’s LOTS and LOTS of recorded doctrine by early prophets about how plural marriage was an eternal principle, was the natural order in heaven, would never be taken from the earth, etc. Because of this, many Mormons believe the practice will be restored one say.
[QUOTE=DVsickgirlDV]
Were you ever able to convert anybody on your mission?
[/QUOTE]
Yes, quite a few, actually. That’s the norm in South America; the people are (generally) poor, less-educated and unsophisticated. Because of this, thousands of people a month get baptized in South America. On my ex-wife’s mission in Paris, on the other hand, she only converted a handful of people. And almost all of those were African immigrants, who were (all together now)…poor, less-educated and unsophisticated. One of my friends served in Sicily and didn’t convert a single person.
[QUOTE=Vlad/Igor]
Have you been (or perhaps “made a pilgrimage”) to Nauvoo? We’ve been there, as my BIL lives in nearby Macomb. It seemed like a very sacred place, not so much because anything spiritual happened there, but more because most of the people there had ancestors who helped settle Nauvoo only three or four generations ago. The guides and reenactors there also seemed to be living in the time of their ancestors, rather than in 2005 when we were there, which was a bit disconcerting.
Vlad/Igor
[/QUOTE]
I’ve been to visit just about every Mormon historical site. Nauvoo, Illinois (the city the Mormons built and from which they were forced to flee). Carthage, Illinois (where Joseph Smith was murdered in jail). Palmyra, New York (where Smith had his First Vision of God and Jesus). Many more in Utah. I find them all a bit creepy.
My Mom’s an ex-Mormon, too, OCS, but of the vehement variety.
Some tips: Don’t raise your children to be totally ignorant and dismissive of the variety of religious beliefs that pervade mainstream society, or they’ll just end up going through two years of born-again Christianity… so I hear.
I grew up alongside my Mormon cousins, and there was no problem between us, then or now (we were all, cousins, spouses, children, some 60 people in all, in SLC this month to celebrate Grandma’s 90th). And yes, they are all unfailingly polite.
As for the CIA thing, it has not been unheard of for the CIA to desire to recruit information and more from missionaries, peace corps volunteers, and journalists (as this old CNN article makes clear
Ex-Catholic here (and I can’t think of another religion with as many “ex’s”) so I can’t exactly throw stones.
Mormons and homosexuality…I knew two Gay guys when I lived in West Hollywood who both came from strict Mormon homes. Both were pretty much tossed out of the family when they came out. One had some limited contact with home, the other hadn’t heard from anyone from his family in years.
However, I worked at a firm chock-full of Mormons here in Las Vegas - they all knew I was Gay and I never had a problem. To the contrary, once I had to go on a business trip and said I was taking my SO…the Mormon in charge of booking the trip even booked a single bed in the hotel room for us. It seems, much like Catholics I know who support pro-choice and Gay rights, that lots of the Mormon congregation seems to find a way to adapt to other beliefs and lifestyles. Yet, not within their own family? Have I just been lucky with the Mormons I worked for, or is this common to give leeway to non-Mormons?
And two other questions:
Why is Salt Lake City the green jello capital of the world? (More green jello sold there than anywhere else in the world, as per Jello’s statistics.)
And have you heard of, or seen, the film “Latter Days”? A very interesting Gay film about Mormons.
OneCentStamp I just posted a question in GQ that concerns my recent trip to Ecuador. If you could dispel some ignorance over there I sure would appreciate it.
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp]
Heh. Beats the shit out of me. But I wouldn’t be surprised.
[/QUOTE] You may think that’s not much of an answer, OCS, but your frankness is damn refreshing. And being from Iowa myself, I know better than to try to tell a Swede from a Dane from a Norwegian (especially after 3 or 4 generations in the USA).
Have you ever read the books in Orson Scott Card’s “Tales of Alvin Maker” series? I understand they’re supposed to be an alternative take on the history of the Mormon church. How well would you say they parallel that?
I’ve already learned one parallel in this thread - at the end of the most recent one that I’ve read, a settlement was established in Illinois (I assumed that was just a discrepancy with IL being used instead of Utah…)
[QUOTE=Mama Zappa]
I’ve already learned one parallel in this thread - at the end of the most recent one that I’ve read, a settlement was established in Illinois (I assumed that was just a discrepancy with IL being used instead of Utah…)
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=kaiwik] OneCentStamp have you, or do you have any intention of submitting a letter of resignation?
[/QUOTE]
I’ve considered it. As it stands, I don’t think I’ll bother unless the Church comes out publicly in favor of some political cause I oppose. If that happens, I’m sure it will be over gay marriage or abortion.
[QUOTE=DMark]
It seems, much like Catholics I know who support pro-choice and Gay rights, that lots of the Mormon congregation seems to find a way to adapt to other beliefs and lifestyles. Yet, not within their own family? Have I just been lucky with the Mormons I worked for, or is this common to give leeway to non-Mormons?
[/quote]
A lot of Mormons try very hard to be openminded, to be “not one of THOSE Mormons.” It sounds like the Mormons you know may be from among those.
I have no idea, but it’s a running joke, even iwthing the Church.
[QUOTE=Mama Zappa]
Have you ever read the books in Orson Scott Card’s “Tales of Alvin Maker” series? I understand they’re supposed to be an alternative take on the history of the Mormon church. How well would you say they parallel that?
I’ve already learned one parallel in this thread - at the end of the most recent one that I’ve read, a settlement was established in Illinois (I assumed that was just a discrepancy with IL being used instead of Utah…)
[/QUOTE]
QtM has already answered this question very well. Orson Scott Card is, of course, very much a Mormon. In fact, the name Orson alone pretty much nails him. It’s a stereotypically Mormon name.
Did you have the elaborate Mormon wedding ceremony, with the secret name and everything? Did your ex have any trouble finding a wedding gown that concealed the garment?
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp]
One of my friends served in Sicily and didn’t convert a single person.
[/QUOTE]
Is that a problem? Can you get into trouble or get counselled for this?
Incidentally, where I live in Sydney, Australia, I’m extra nice to the LDS missionaries I see, a.) because they get treated like crap, b.) because most of the ones I’ve met are American, and we’re all tickled to hear a familiar accent and c.) most of the ones I’ve encountered are from Podunk, Utah or BFE Idaho, and Sydney is a really big place.
