Ask the Freemason

[Gary_Robson]

@Alan_Smithee

Out of curiosity, how do they feel about atheists?

(speaking of the Elks here, not the Masons, as this question was directed to me)
Joining requires that you be a U.S. citizen and affirm a belief in God. There is no restriction on that belief. My Lodge has active Catholics, Protestants, Jews, and many that I’m not sure of (because it’s none of my business). I know of Mormon and Muslim Elks as well, although not in my Lodge. But not atheists.

Frankly, this is one of the things that bothers me about the Elks. There is nothing overtly religious about the organization at all. It isn’t affiliated with any church in any way, yet we have to turn away potential members because of their religious beliefs. Our big causes as an organization are taking care of veterans and kids (last time I checked, the U.S. Government was the only organization in America that gave out more scholarship money than the Elks). Our state organization has a marvelous program that buys emergency room equipment for rural hospitals.

The Elks have no membership prohibition based on race, gender, sexual preference, income level, or any other common basis for discrimination except this. If you don’t believe in God, you can’t help us with our charitable works.

I shouldn’t say any more, though, because I’m posting under my real name, and I am currently the Exalted Ruler of my Lodge.

[Perciful]

@Winston_Smith

Well, yes and no. I mean, the titles,
Does that make sense?

Thanks for answering my questions. I have always wondered but have never known a mason enough to ask. My upstairs neighbor is a mason because he has the decal on his car and one of my doctors recently told me he joined.

I am still curious about the third temple connection. I saw some of the temple building being built on Utube. What is supposed to happen once it is built? If it is not a secret I would like to know. I have heard so many things about the end of the world or a global government?

[Winston_Smith]

@Dogzilla

I didn’t see how Paul in Qatar’s response had anything to do with my question. I provided a link above so you can see what the mormon temple rituals are like and can more accurately compare.

Full Disclosure: I’m an exmormon but have never been to the mormon temple. There’s a lot of discussion ongoing on the exmo boards in regard to the Masonic connection to mormonism, which is why I’m following this thread.

Huh. Well, a second apology, then. I quickly scanned the page you linked, then looked at Joe Smith’s wikipedia entry to only to learn that he was a Mason. I don’t know this for a fact, but it seems reasonable that he would take Masonic ritual and mold it into Mormon ritual. I’ll look more closely at the linked page over the weekend and if I come up with a more informed response I’ll provide it.

[Winston_Smith]

[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:81, topic:532931”]

(speaking of the Elks here, not the Masons, as this question was directed to me)
Joining requires that you be a U.S. citizen and affirm a belief in God. There is no restriction on that belief. My Lodge has active Catholics, Protestants, Jews, and many that I’m not sure of (because it’s none of my business). I know of Mormon and Muslim Elks as well, although not in my Lodge. But not atheists.

Frankly, this is one of the things that bothers me about the Elks. There is nothing overtly religious about the organization at all. It isn’t affiliated with any church in any way, yet we have to turn away potential members because of their religious beliefs. Our big causes as an organization are taking care of veterans and kids (last time I checked, the U.S. Government was the only organization in America that gave out more scholarship money than the Elks). Our state organization has a marvelous program that buys emergency room equipment for rural hospitals.

The Elks have no membership prohibition based on race, gender, sexual preference, income level, or any other common basis for discrimination except this. If you don’t believe in God, you can’t help us with our charitable works.

I shouldn’t say any more, though, because I’m posting under my real name, and I am currently the Exalted Ruler of my Lodge.
[/QUOTE]

[Hijacking my own thread]

Hey Gary,

I noticed just this morning that there’s an Elks Lodge in my town. How do I go about joining, and how much can I expect to pay for yearly dues?

[/Hijack]

[Dogzilla]

Thanks, Winston! Take your time. I don’t have much to do with the computer after 5:00 on Fridays, so I’ll catch you on Monday. Enjoy your weekend.

If you have time or the inclination to do a little more research, google about Joseph Smith’s death. There is some controversy that, as he was shot out of a window of the Carthage IL jail, he allegedly gave a Masonic code/signal/cry for help to whatever Masonic brethren might have been willing to help him out. Nobody did, IIRC, because they were lynching the guy for boffing teenaged girls.

[Winston_Smith]

@Perciful

Thanks for answering my questions. I have always wondered but have never known a mason enough to ask. My upstairs neighbor is a mason because he has the decal on his car and one of my doctors recently told me he joined.

I am still curious about the third temple connection. I saw some of the temple building being built on Utube. What is supposed to happen once it is built? If it is not a secret I would like to know. I have heard so many things about the end of the world or a global government?

Building the Temple is allegory for self-improvement and character-building. The Temple is never finished because self-improvement is a life-long endeavor.

I don’t think the Masons are interested in creating a world or global government. Discussion of politics is not allowed in Lodge, because it could disrupt the harmony of the Lodge. The other topics not allowed to be discussed in Lodge are religion and business/business ventures.

[Tastes_of_Chocolate]

@Winston_Smith

Among the requirements to join are being a man, free-born, over 21, of good character, and belief in a higher power.

Do these restrictions bother you at all? Is it part of the appeal? Is it something that you view as something to put up with, to join? Basically, do you view the restritions as good, bad or indifferent?

[Gary_Robson]

@Winston_Smith

[Hijacking my own thread]

Hey Gary,

I noticed just this morning that there’s an Elks Lodge in my town. How do I go about joining, and how much can I expect to pay for yearly dues?

[/Hijack]

The process is easiest if you happen to know a member. If you don’t, just stop by the Lodge sometime when it’s open and ask about it. If it has a bar (as many of them do), you can typically find someone who will admit you as a guest, and there is almost always a stack of membership applications on the bar.

You could also PM me and let me know what town you’re in. I can look up the Lodge number by ZIP code and see if I know anyone there.

Yearly dues vary from Lodge to Lodge. Ours is $80/year. The ones that have golf courses, tennis courts, and so on can be a fair amount higher. Some of the smaller Lodges are less. Incidentally, being an Elk is really handy if you travel around the country much. At least half the Lodges have free overnight camping for members with RVs. Most are parking lots, but some are full-fledged campsites with hookups.

[septimus]

I have at least one ancestor who was a Mason 100 years ago. Confirmation of this, and knowing which of his ancestors were Masons would be useful to me as a genealogist. Do the Masons preserve old membership records, and if so is there any way I could access those of my ancestor(s)?

[Winston_Smith]

@Tastes_of_Chocolate

Do these restrictions bother you at all? Is it part of the appeal? Is it something that you view as something to put up with, to join? Basically, do you view the restritions as good, bad or indifferent?

Like any other club, the requirements to join are part of what defines the Fraternity. The idea of joining a club like this is to enjoy the society of people like yourself, and I’m pleased that I was able to meet the membership criteria. Like I said before, there are plenty of organizations out there that I can’t join because I don’t meet their membership criteria, but I don’t begrudge them that.

So, I wouldn’t go so far as to say I find it to be part of the appeal, but I certainly don’t have a problem with it.

[YogSothoth]

Do all the guys in there actually know masonry?

[Winston_Smith]

[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:88, topic:532931”]

The process is easiest if you happen to know a member. If you don’t, just stop by the Lodge sometime when it’s open and ask about it. If it has a bar (as many of them do), you can typically find someone who will admit you as a guest, and there is almost always a stack of membership applications on the bar.

You could also PM me and let me know what town you’re in. I can look up the Lodge number by ZIP code and see if I know anyone there.

Yearly dues vary from Lodge to Lodge. Ours is $80/year. The ones that have golf courses, tennis courts, and so on can be a fair amount higher. Some of the smaller Lodges are less. Incidentally, being an Elk is really handy if you travel around the country much. At least half the Lodges have free overnight camping for members with RVs. Most are parking lots, but some are full-fledged campsites with hookups.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the info. I’ll ask around the Lodge and I bet I’ll find an Elk.

[Winston_Smith]

@septimus

I have at least one ancestor who was a Mason 100 years ago. Confirmation of this, and knowing which of his ancestors were Masons would be useful to me as a genealogist. Do the Masons preserve old membership records, and if so is there any way I could access those of my ancestor(s)?

Yes, Masons keep records of their members, including name, date and place of birth, dates and places of Masonic Degrees, and (if applicable) date of death. There may be additional information, as well, though I’m not sure.

I don’t know that the information is available to non-Masons, though. You’d have to find out which Lodge your ancestor was a member of, and if it is still open you might contact the Lodge Historian or Lodge Secretary.

[Winston_Smith]

@YogSosoth

Do all the guys in there actually know masonry?

We know the names and use of many of the tools of operative masonry, such as the trowel, plum and square, as they are symbolic of certain Masonic concepts.

[Broomstick]

@Alan_Smithee

Wait, free-born? Really? I know that’s just a relic, but Masonry is an international organization, and slavery and indentured servitude do still exist in the world. Would someone really be disqualified based on their legal status at birth? That’s pretty offensive.

It’s not just that - my husband was denied membershp in the Masons years ago because he was born with a birth defect (this was not a matter of just one Lodge rejecting him - he sought membership multiple times in multiple states). I’d like to think they’ve become more enlightened.

Then, when we got married, as part of our marriage vows we both promised never to join an organization that wouldn’t accept the other - so he stopped looking to join the Masons and I never joined the 99’s. No, we don’t consider auxillaries “good enough”. But that’s us - obviously other people arrange their lives differently.

My paternal grandmother was part of Eastern Star at one point - at least, that’s my assumption based on some of the personal effects I inherited from her. Always did feel somewhat awkward to have in possession materials from a secret society of which I was not a member, yet I never could bring myself to toss them, either, or give them away. I suppose it’s vaguely naughty or something, although as mentioned the secrets are pretty much not very secret these days.

@Winston_Smith

I reckon the Eastern Star has the same requirement for belief that the Masons do.

According to what I inherited from grandma, yes, Eastern Star also has that requirement. I should also point out that those books and things are more than 50 years old, so it’s possible they’ve changed, but…

[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:31, topic:532931”]

Might you be thinking of the Elks? We’ve been admitting women for a while now, but people are just starting to notice. I’m just finishing up my term as Exalted Ruler in my Lodge, and three of my officers are women. Next year, we’re adding another.
[/QUOTE]

Really? A fraternal organization both my husband and I can join as a couple? Are you interested in starting an “Ask the Elk member” thread?

@ivan_astikov

Don’t you wear trendy robes and sashes, and have funky jewelery?

Well, if the Masons aren’t doing that you could always join the Neo-Pagan crowd - our robes and jewelry definitely tend toward funky (when we’re not skyclad). Of course, we’re a problem for the atheists, too, as we believe in multiple higher powers.

[Gary_Robson]

@Broomstick

Really? A fraternal organization both my husband and I can join as a couple? Are you interested in starting an “Ask the Elk member” thread?

Sure. Here you go. Now I can stop hijacking Winston’s thread.

Incidentally, if there are members of any other fraternal organizations that would like to start an “Ask the…” thread, go for it.

[moonstarssun]

When I was in college, I briefly dated a guy who told me he was a 32nd degree mason. He was 24, and said that it was unusual for someone his age to achieve that level. He was very secretive about all of it, so I was never sure whether he was just trying to impress me or if he honestly couldn’t say anything.

So, is it possible for someone that young to be that high in the order (is that what it’s called?)?

[Paul_in_Qatar]

@Dogzilla

I didn’t see how Paul in Qatar’s response had anything to do with my question. I provided a link above so you can see what the mormon temple rituals are like and can more accurately compare.

Full Disclosure: I’m an exmormon but have never been to the mormon temple. There’s a lot of discussion ongoing on the exmo boards in regard to the Masonic connection to mormonism, which is why I’m following this thread.

Kindly forgive me. People who join the Masons are the sort of people who like to join things. As a result, parts of the ritual of the Moose, several early labor unions, the Klu Klux Klan, the Mormon Church and certainly other groups were based on Masonic ritual. As I said, at some point we asked the Moose (Mooses? Mice?) to cut it out and they did.

[Paul_in_Qatar]

@moonstarssun

When I was in college, I briefly dated a guy who told me he was a 32nd degree mason. He was 24, and said that it was unusual for someone his age to achieve that level. He was very secretive about all of it, so I was never sure whether he was just trying to impress me or if he honestly couldn’t say anything.

So, is it possible for someone that young to be that high in the order (is that what it’s called?)?

The 32nd Degree is given by the York Rite and Scottish Rite. It take a weekend to attend the ceremonies to be awarded the degree. No big deal. The 33rd Degree is only given for a lifetime of service to the Craft. It is a big deal.

No man is more Mason than one who holds the 3rd Degree (Master Mason) the other stuff is just for funnies. Oddly the York and Scottish Rites are America-mostly groups, so their degrees are just sort of made-up add ons.

[Alan_Smithee]

@Broomstick

It’s not just that - my husband was denied membershp in the Masons years ago because he was born with a birth defect (this was not a matter of just one Lodge rejecting him - he sought membership multiple times in multiple states). I’d like to think they’ve become more enlightened.

Have they? It sounds like it from what Winston said, but I’d like to know more about this. When did it change? What was the reasoning for the original rule and what was the reason for the change?