But not such a good product for Campbell’s to try to sell.
My 61-year old brother died unexpectedly in January. His teen-aged son went to wake him to watch the Superbowl, and he was dead. The assumption was heart attack, but he had no previous heart attacks, although he had a heart condition and had a kidney removed because of kidney cancer. There was no autopsy. The coroner ruled the death as “natural causes” (presumably because he didn’t have a bullet hole or a needle sticking out of his arm). Given the family medical history, I really wished they’d done an autopsy, but I guess the county only pays for one if the death is suspicious or the decedent is a minor. He was cremated a day later.
StG
Maggie, please feel free to contact me directly. I will share privately my email via DM if you find it easier to correspond in this manner.
To be honest the steps you listed as to what would occur after you die is fairly correct if that is what your family wishes to happen.
As to having to deal with two companies, this would be the case if you went through an funeral home that was independent of the cemetery where your final resting place will be. Most cemeteries also have a mortuary associated with it so if you went through them you would only be dealing with one company, however generally speaking most independent funeral homes are a lot less costly than the cemetery’s in house mortuary.
There are other ways of handling the disposition of remains that you can consider. There is no legal requirement in most states that a burial of cremated remains must occur at a cemetery - scattering of the ashes, or keeping the remains at home or at a local church are other options among many. In the State of California where I practice a family can actually obviate the involvement of a funeral home in preparing the remains and scheduling the final disposition and there are independent consultants which are currently known as “funeral midwives” who proactively assist and advise families that wish to do this.
Simply put, a funeral home is a convenience for a family and the funeral director takes care of what needs to be done so that the family can be spared of this effort. Prior to the civil war families handled all of these tasks on their own and I think those who choose to do this now deal with death on a healthier level than those who have the funeral home shield them from the process.
The following is a link to information about home funerals that you may find useful:
http://homefuneralalliance.org/resources/home-funeral-information/
Several years ago, I had several gold crowns replaced. I weighed them up and the value came to a couple of hundred or so. It’s difficult for me to believe that crematory workers, probably low paid, don’t scoop up these puddles of melted gold. It is hard to believe it ends up in the trash, or given to charity.
High in fiber and calcium!
After spending downtime at work yesterday searching and commenting on funeral related threads, I noticed that a number of those old threads I had commented on had been closed by moderators with a note to me to knock off resurrecting old threads. A few of these threads had comments from posters indicating that they were quite annoyed with me resurrecting these treads most of which were quite old. I did not realize at the time I was posting that doing this - that is resurrecting old threads - was frowned upon and that I was irritating users by doing so until I received a PM from a moderator requesting that I cease and desist.
A thread commenting about whether or not my actions were part of a spam attack or a figment of some personal need of mine to gain attention was created that I saw this morning.
Given that I didn’t intend to misstep here but inadvertently pissed a lot of folks off, I posted an apology viewable at the following link:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20315498#post20315498
I returned to the boards a few days ago after being away for many years and I admit that I went overboard with my comments yesterday. I really don’t know much about anything, but as a funeral director have amassed a lot of somewhat useless information about the industry. It is therefore one of the few subjects on which I can speak with confidence. Unfortunately I rolled with this and took it too far to the point that I came off as a lecturing a know-it-all who admittedly should have known better that my actions might annoy and irritate folks here on this board which in hindsight I now see I did. For this I am very sorry and apologize to everyone.
I also would like to thank the very patient and understanding moderators on this page for letting me know what I was doing was not allowed. They could have very easily and rightfully banned me from the forums, but they instead were nice enough to let me slide with a warning this time.
So again, I am very sorry if I annoyed you with my posts, or anyone got bummed out by seeing a large number of zombified old funeral related posts when visiting the forums yesterday, and I hope that you will forgive me for this and accept my promise that this will not happen again.
Thank you
The fact that you received posts and comments on those threads shows that people are interested in the topic. It’s your bread and butter (as it were), but for most of us, planning a funeral is a rare occurrence.
The mods left this thread open so people could come here and ask their questions–and clearly, there are many questions-- so I hope they will. After all the Doper mission is fighting ignorance. Welcome back.
I don’t know if you saw the discussion of your thread resurrection here.
Thank you for your kindness and understanding ThelmaLou.
I did see that thread this morning, and I posted the following apology there:
"I wholeheartedly apologize to everyone for not realizing that commenting on old threads was frowned upon - in thinking about it I can totally understand why this would be the case.
I had been quite a while since I had last been on these boards and I returned after many years of being away and rediscovered just how cool these pages are.
As to why I focused on posts about the funeral industry please know that I was not trying to annoy anyone and that I had no nefarious intentions in doing so. I am a funeral director so I have more information and knowledge about the death care industry than I do about most things. Admittedly I can see I went overboard with this
TBH I did not realize until I received a PM from one of the very patient mods here that what I was doing was inappropriate. By that time, I had commented on so many posts on this subject that a look at these threads now which have been closed can lead one to believe that I kept doing this in spite of being warned.
It was my failing that I was not aware of the rules and I admit that common sense should have prevailed and I should have realized that what I was doing could potentially annoy people.
I do promise that this will not happen again and I will revisit the forum rules so that I do not inadvertently break the rules again. I hope that everyone including the moderators will forgive me for going overboard yesterday - it was a very slow day at the office which in my profession is a good thing.
Thank you for your understanding and patience"
The funeral director I went through for my husband’s cremation was pretty open that unclaimed bits like dental gold and possibly surgical metal type things tended to be pitched in a bin and sold for scrap periodically, which makes some sense. I expect dental offices reclaim gold as well.
That said, at least in the case of the FD I worked with, you can get these things returned if you use a little persistence.
Yes, the operative point is that you will need to be persistent when requesting that implants and gold dental work be returned. You will also need to be prepared to absorb the cost of doing this. My morgue staff as well as the independent contractors we work with to provide morgue services refuse to pull gold teeth because they feel that it is destructive and consider this to be tantamount to desecration of remains so if a family insists on this we would need to hire a dentist or a similarly skilled practitioner to do this for us - when I last inquired about this, the cost of having a practitioner come and remove the teeth was higher than the value of the gold crowns that the family wanted.
I can fully understand a family choosing to do this, and if that is what they insist upon doing we will do whatever we can to accommodate.
Do you let people bring alcohol to the funerals? At my grandfather’s funeral, we were going out to my cousin’s truck for beers. (heh) And years ago my dad once found someone had hid some empties in a toilet tank.
If we are at a temple or church or a cemetery, there are usually policies forbidding folks from consuming food or drinks - including booze in the sancturary or on cemetery grounds. Which is to say that I know that it is common for folks to sneak nips off a flask or a small bottle. If they are doing so without calling attention to themselves I would give them a pass.
Given how alcohol works, it can sometimes be helpful in calming emotionally distraught folks and at the same time can often negatively exacerbate their emotional state.
I did a graveside for a young man who was a member of a local street gang and at the burial some of his friends - who were all very polite and respectful - produced a bottle of tequila from which they wanted to pour the first drink out over the grave which is a traditional show of respect done by folks from the neighborhood. Even though the attendant from the cemetery who was present and saw this happening was duty bound to stop them from doing this tribute and drinking the remains of the bottle while fellowshipping at the graveside, she shot me a amused look and shrugged. She later told me that as long as it doesn’t turn into a frat party she will look the other way just as I do when this happens.
So technically the answer would be “no” however operatively I will also look the other way if I can.
Not the same juridiction, obviously, but I doubt it would be any different in the USA, since there are a lot of sudden deaths without obvious cause :
One of my brothers died suddenly last year, aged 61, despite not having any known serious medical condition. There was a summary police inquiry, because he had a head wound. They figured that he had hit the corner of a piece of furniture when he fell dead (specifically, it seems he was eating his breakfast, that still was on the kitchen table, presumably felt ill, tried to give a phone call and collapsed while reaching for the phone on a low table whose corner his head hit on the way down).
After this summary inquiry (less than two days) they left the decision to have an autopsy done or not up to the family. His children didn’t want one (and because it will inevitably cross someone’s mind : neither of his children was living anywhere close to his place, so they couldn’t have murdered him), so, they simply released the body. I don’t know what is the official cause of death.
Contrary to popular belief a full post mortem exam (autopsy) is not automatically done just because of a person’s age or lack of any medical problems, and the coroner is not always involved automatically. Police responders to a death that occurs outside of medical supervision will relay to the coroner their observations and if there are no signs of foul play (like a gunshot wound, knife sticking out of the remains, etc) and there is a primary care physician who treated the decedent within the last six months who is willing to provide medical causes of death, the coroner may choose to not be involved at all or instead assign a case number for future reference. Often, the coroner investigator will do what we refer to as a “sign-out” which would involve a visual inspection of the remains and a review of medical history in order to base their conclusions for cause of death. In addition to these facts they will require a statement be made by the family regarding the facts leading up to the death (eg. When the last time the decedent was seen alive, what physical complaints the decedent may have made prior to death, etc.)
Many families are incensed to learn that the coroner has chosen to not do an autopsy and will request that a private autopsy be done which is their right to request at their expense (and it can be very expensive) Recently I had a family who insisted this be done for their 99 year old grandmother because according to them she was in good health and should not have died from what the coroner had deemed as natural causes. They spent several thousand dollars to have the private autopsy confirm that the 99 year old woman passed due to her age.
Was that just a theoretical possibility, or did the families actually request to view the remains prior to reinterment? :eek:
In this one particular case we did inform the family that the remains were in very good condition, but would need some cosmetics and minor restoration to be viewable. The parents of the decedent declined, however they sent one of the surviving children, the adult brother of the decedent, to come primarily to ensure that we had the right set of remains for the burial. Understandably, the son who arrived was very emotional when he saw his brother, however he did comment that his appearance was excellent and that it was hard to believe he looked so good after so many years had passed. However, most families have opted to forego having another viewing after disinterment and before reinterment
A few years ago the Big Bopper was disinterred and his condition was good enough that his son was able to view him and finally meet his father.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2007-04-04/features/0704020146_1_big-bopper-jay-richardson-father
I know of a funeral in which one of the folks from the funeral home admonished an attendee for their hat. This funeral was in a church, and the deceased, a younger woman, had had some problems, and “iffy” friends. One guy came in wearing a billed cap backwards. He was asked, in a low voice, to take it off. He did.
Have you ever run into problems with the attire at funerals?
For the most part folks are pretty respectful when it comes to wearing appropriate attire, however I once had a USMC Sgt from an Honor Guard yell at a group of elderly VFW members who were seated with the honorary pallbearers wearing their group caps “SIR, REMOVE YOUR COVER NOW, SIR!!” before the playing of taps and the flag presentation at a church service. These veterans always wear their VFW caps at funeral services and they meant no disrespect they complied (albeit slowly), then later came as a group to complain to me about getting yelled at by the teenage sgt., to which I apologized letting them know I was outranked and could not do anything about it. I did actually speak to the commanding officer of the unit later to request that his marines refrain from yelling in the future at the congregation, especially those who are elderly veterans.
I did once actually ask an attendee to remove his backwards baseball cap at the request of a family member - apparently he was the boyfriend of one of the nieces of the decedent and could not do anything right as far as the family was concerned. It certainly did not help him at all that he lacked the common sense to dress up for the service, choosing instead to look like some sort of Slim Shady wannabe gangsta, replete with the athletic gear and gold chains.
If I understand correctly, “cremains” are mostly bone fragments, ground into powder after the cremation. I have heard it claimed that, if you set the controls on the furnace properly, even the bones would go up the chimney, and there would be no remains at all. Is this possible? That would be my preference.
You mentioned that private autopsies could get expensive (makes sense–it’s surgery). In your area, what do the prices run?
Most of the flesh and bones are actually vaporized during the several hours of exposure to intense and high heat. Some portions of the inorganic bone matter and re-fused fragments of calcium phosphate remain after the cremation has been completed and that is what is processed into an aggregate substance resembling “ashes” - as to if these fused chips of calcium from the bones can also be completely vaporized if subjected higher temperature for longer I am not certain, but it sounds right.
I do not want to quote prices for the autopsy services - there are a few outfits that provide these services - but I do know that price it is dependent on what you are asking them to do. A simple blood draw for a toxicological screen, or a request for a review of the decedent’s medical records to either refute or corroborate causes of death provided by the PCP for example are going to be considerably less costly than the fee for a full post mortem examination.