Stalin was born in Georgia. Does his ghost haunt the city? Does it even want to?
Does it drive you insane when you say you’re in Georgia and people assume you mean the one containing Atlanta?
MwGG: One of my very good friends here in the states was born raised and educated in Georgia, this Georgia, and yes it is annoying for her to always have to add, “the former Soviet Republic” or something like that (Hell it is even annoying for me when I introduce her to others.).
Can I just tell you how incredibly jealous I am? You must, must, must go hear lots of live music and see lots of dancing and drink lots of wine…and climb some mountains, and visit some really old monasteries…
For everyone else, the Georgian language is not Slavic, and has its own alphabet. The Georgians are not Slavs (or if they are, even in part, few would admit it). They have been in the Caucasus for a long, long time.
Will you ask some Georgians if they know Dodona Kiziria? She was a grad school professor of mine, and word around campus is that she was a very well-know poet in Georgia. She also worked with Andrei Tarkovskii on Solaris. She is one hell of a wacky and interesting woman.
Also, *ralf, can I get you to ask for some recipes for me? Particularly for lamb kebabs, *lobio, * and khachapuri? (The latter is an extremely yummy bread stuffed with cheese. There’s also a version stuffed with kidney beans, onions, and cilantro.) Also for walnut sauce (bazha), or pretty much any traditional Georgian food.
And if you find any really good CDs of traditional Georgian a cappella singing, is there anything I can do to get you to send me some? (A girl can always hope!) Or anywhere in Georgia that will do reliable mail-order, preferably online? (You never know.)
tee-beel’-ee-see, according to my sister, who has lived there some 6 years or so. The first and third syllables are similar to the ‘schwa’ sound in the english language. Barely even count as syllables.
Grab as many of the Georgian Chant albums as you can. We love ours.
Eva, there ‘were’ two Georgian restaurants in Chicago area. One, in Winnetka, seems to be no longer there. The other one, whose name I cannot remember, is roughly in the Devon/Kedzie area. I can’t really remember better. My sister said it was very authentic, although she was heartbroken when she found out the cook was Russian.
**Abe, ** I know exactly where you are talking about. The first one was called Stariy Tiflis [Old Tbilisi], and it was on Green Bay Road. They closed a couple of years ago, but I was never that impresed with them anyway. The other one is called Tbilisi (creative, huh), and I’ve been there. Ick! It may be authentic, in the sense that it was a truly post-Soviet experince: the place reeked of cigarette smoke, they were serving vodkla, although I don’t believe they have a license, and they were out of 2/3 of the items on the menu. Plus the chicken tapaka was still bleeding when we sliced into it. Never again.
You must, however, check out the Argo Georgian Bakery, which is down the block near the intersection with California. Big brick oven, bread that fights back, and AFAIK the only khachapuri in the Midwest (besides the aforementioned Dodona Kiziria’s secret recipe, and the stuff I made out of a cookbook; good, but not quite the same, because I haven’t tried it with the proper local Georgian cheese yet). You can buy the cheese down the block at Ted’s produce market, but the name of the cheese is escaping me at the moment.
Plus, there are numerous local variations on khachapuri. I believe the Ossetians bake theirs open-faced, with an egg baked in the middle.
Have you been to Stalins birthplace? And to the city where his statue has been re-raised?
Ah, thanks. Believe it or not, I’ve been wondering for quite a while now.
Any thoughts on Lukoil’s pullout from the BTC and the Azeri-Chirag-Guneshli oifield? Do you think it was the result of political string-pulling on the part of the Russians, or just a normal business decision? What do your co-workers generally think?
For those who aren’t IR nerds (you’re lucky, by the way): linkey-link-link-link(pdf-style): http://www.csis.org/ruseura/ponars/policymemos/pm_0286.pdf .
Also, do Georgians have any thoughts on the new Common Economic Space? (Center for Defense Information)? I know that Georgia isn’t joining it, but is there concern, as mentioned in the article, that this is an attempt at Russian economic hegemony? Or do people just not care?
Finally - will you be my friend? 
I’ve just set up a forum for my school’s polisci students to discuss international relations - even though you’re not a student at Roger Williams University, I would be honored if you’d like to register at the forum at post occasionally with your on-the-scene knowledge. URL is www.rwuir.tk if you’re interested.
Thanks for starting this thread!
Do they still have the big wrestling tournament there? It used to be the biggest international meet besides the Olympics and the World Championships.
Regards,
Shodan
Earlier this year I saw a documentary called [url=http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0358647/]Power Trip, which is about the purchase of Georgia’s formerly state-run power utility by the Western company AES, and the company’s attempts to modernize the facilities and move the country toward a Western model of generation and supply.
Focusing primarily on the situation in Tbilisi, the film shows a population that to a large extent hasn’t yet gotten used to what might be labeled public commodities; they smash their meters, and haphazardly rig connections from power lines outside into their apartments. There’s one stunning scene showing an apartment project with an electrical shack out front; the door to the shack has been pried off, and hundreds of stripped cables have been twisted onto various terminals and around each other, leading to a mind-boggling spiderweb of potential electrocution danging in the open air and up to almost every individual window on the side of the apartment building.
The film was shot in 2001-2002, and shows a city plagued by frequent power outages, largely caused by bureaucratic inertia and just plain corruption: The guy in charge of the biggest power plants in the area is basically a criminal, an electrical mafioso if you will, and he refuses to cooperate with any of the modernization schemes because it’ll impact his bottom line. Barely half of the bills mailed out by AES are even acknowledged, let alone paid; there’s a daily line of angry people at the home office demanding their electricity be turned back on because (they say) they didn’t get the bill, they didn’t know it had to be paid, they did pay the bill but the bank stole the money, or, well, or else they’ll freak out and beat somebody up right there in the office if the power isn’t turned back on.
There was also mention of an investigative reporter, maybe even an anchorman, who was putting together a story for broadcast about corruption in the utilities, but that he was murdered by persons as yet unidentified and unknown.
I don’t really have a specific question, but: Does any of this ring a bell? Does it sound like the documentary oversold the country’s problems? It came off as being pretty grim and hopeless; I’m just wondering how accurate it was.
Well, I munged up that link, so here’s another one.
Wow! What a nice response! Let’s see if I can get some of these questions answered…
slortar - I have heard people pronounce Tbilisi as Abe Babe describes and I have heard it pronounced ta-blee-see. Take your pick, I reckon.
Eva Luna - I have not heard of Dodona Kiziria, but I will ask about her when I return to Georgia in three weeks. I have all the dishes you mention, Ms. Luna. I am especially fond of khachapuri - it seems to be a staple of all the lunch spots that I have eaten in around Tbilisi. Except for the two (yes, two!) McDonald’s, of course. I would be happy to look for recipe books for you, and I am sure that some of my Georgian co-workers can help me find some good albums. I did participate in a traditional Georgian supra (Georgian for “table,” or dinner), by the way - I kept a glass of water and a glass of soda pop close to my wine glass so I could sneakily drain a less potent liquid than the wine at each toast. Here’s how it works: the toast passes around the table and at each one, the diners are expected to drink the entire contents of the wine glass. We had ten guests at the table, and we made several circuits of the table when the toasts began. There is a protocol to follow, but each guest made at least two toasts. Besides three pitchers of the house wine, we opened fifteen bottles of wine that night.
Ryan_Liam - No, sir, I have not yet been to Stalin’s birthplace, but it is on my list of things to do.
Shodan - I am not familiar with the wrestling tournament you mentioned, but I would not be surprised if it is still held. The Georgian people are very competitive and they are proud of their athletes. I’ll keep you posted about the sports scene when I return in a few weeks.
Mr. Excellent and Cervaise - I am very interested in discussing these topics with you. I am late for an appointment, but I promise to log back on this evening to discuss what you have posted. I have seen what you are describing, and since I am working on the BTC pipeline, I can give some details about it and other energy-related topics. And, yes, I am interested in being a contributor to a polictal forum. I am sorry that I have to rush off, but I’ll be back later.
Hey ralf,
Very cool! I don’t have my e-mail posted on my profile, and I see that you don’t, either. But if you should need to communicate with me off-board about any of the above, just post here and I’ll find a way to get you my e-mail address.
Someday I’ll make it to the Caucasus…I think I was a Caucasian in a previous life or something. (I’d thought about doing a 2-week traditional Georgian singing camp there this fall, but I chickened out, mainly because the airfare is so damn expensive.) But have you ever heard the legend about why Georgia is so beautiful? (I’ve got a published version at home somewhere, but I’ll try to do my best from memory.)
Once upon a time, when God was creating the universe, he was deciding which peoples should get which pieces of land. There were thousands of peoples, all standing in line waiting for their handout, so it was a very long day.
The Georgians, meanwhile, had better things to do than stand in line; they were all sitting around the table, eating, drinking, singing, and generally merrymaking. In fact, they were having such a good time that they completely forgot to get up and stand in line. When one of them finally remembered and got up to talk to God about getting a Georgian homeland, God had already handed out all the land. “Oh well, no hard feelings,” said the Georgians. “Why don’t you come sit down at the table and eat and drink and sing with us?” God agreed, and more bottles were opened, more songs were sung, and more platters of delicious food brought out. Finally, God decided that the Georgians had been so wonderful and hospitable to him that he would give him the piece of land he had been saving for himself.
Why didn’t the Georgians sign the agreement with the Vatican?
Eva Luna - That’s a great story! I’ll have to tell that story to the Georgians that I work with.
S.A.L. - That’s a good question. Unfortunately, all the newspaper articles I have read say that no one knows for sure what the agreement is about. Apparently there were some behind-the-scenes discussions between the Vatican and the Church of Georgia that were not open to the public, so I don’t know what’s going on with that agreement. When I return, perhaps I can find out a little more about this; that kinda stuff intrigues me.
Mr. Excellent - As you are no doubt aware, the BTC pipeline will at first augment, and then replace the existing WREP. If I understand it correctly, LukOil was not happy that the Caspian Sea crude will be available for the global market via the BTC Pipeline project. The relationship between Georgia and Russia is shaky at best. Georgia relies on energy resources from Russia, but Georgia is desperate to become energy-independent. As I said earlier, sir, I would be honored to join your discussions. I will go to the site you have posted and get involved. Thank you for inviting me.
Cervaise - Well, how do I start? I have seen buildings in Tbilisi and Rustavi that are now little more than human warehouses. Some are former hotels and some are former apartment buildings, but all are crowded with out-of-work displaced persons, some of whom are hopelessly stuck in a no-win situation in regards to income and resources. As a matter of fact, the hotel that was brand-new when the Russians left, the Iveria Hotel is now a huge slum, populated with “refugees” and “homeless people”. Many times, these buildings have single wires running from another building or from a tranformer on a power line pole - in other words, illegal tie-ins to the electrical system. Street lamps on the main streets of Tbilisi have open terminal boxes with wires sticking out; this is so street vendors can tap into the electricity to run their bare bulb lamps and coolers for their wares.
Utilities in Georgia are rather unreliable. In Tbilisi, we experience at least on electrical power outage every single day. The water is turned off at night for about six hours in most parts of the city. The natural gas line from Russia is sometimes closed, so heating for some of the residents of Tbilisi may be non-existant this winter. Most of these problems occur because of the wide-ranging corruption throughout the country.
Surprisingly, the citizens of Georgia are remarkably optimistic about the future of their country. They are counting on projects like the BTC Pipeline and other economic improvements to change their lives for the better. All the Georgians I talk to say that the first step is to change the existing political regime to a younger, more honest group of men and women who will deal with the existing problems instead of taking advantage of the turmoil to make more money.
Unlike some other third-world countries I have worked in, Georgia has a disappearing middle class. Here’s what I mean by that: In most third-world countries, there is an emerging middle class. This is happening because people are learning a craft or skill and becoming the folks that make the country run - a real departure from the “haves and have-nots” two class system that existed in the past. In Georgia, however, the middle class that used to be employed when the Russians were in power now have no jobs, no direction and no real future. The middle class is well-educated and ambitious, but they have no jobs. This is because the Russians crippled the infrastructure when they left. All the factories are idle and there are no self-generated Georgian goods available. The country at present is essentially an agriculture-based society. All the existing transportation, mercantile, and utility systems are based on left-over Russian technology or imported foreign products - much of which is gratis.
As an outsider from the U.S., I am amazed at the conditions that exist in Georgia. The Georgians, however, realize that they have a pretty tough road ahead of them and they know that they cannot continue to rely on donations from Western aid societies and corporate exploitation from the U.S., the U.K. Russia, and other industrialized nations. Is it grim? Most certainly. Can they get beyond this to a brighter future? I really think they can; it just won’t be a fun trip.
Mr. Excellent - Well, I have tried the url for your political science international relations forum several times, but it doesn’t seem to work for me. Please post a correction so I can register and participate.
Just some ramblings…
Last winter was tough all over Georgia… we went a week without gas in January (flat got down to about 3C). From about mid-Nov to mid-March it was VERY cold - coldest winter in some time.
The trip up to Kazbegi on the Russian border is quite a ride… did that last December.
I would think the Metechi would have better power than say Vera or Vake… McDonalds on Rustaveli always seems to have power.
Radar Ralf , or indeed your fellow Tbilisite, ** Trygve**, I would appreciate some menu recommendations and, more importantly, wine (name/year) recommendations for Georgian food. There is a place in North London I have been to and want to go back to called Tbilisi, on the Holloway Road, which seemed pretty authentic to me. Well, the staff all seemed to be Georgian and there were Georgian expats eating there too when I was there.
Anyway I have a sneaking feeling I did not order well when last there and am determined to do better next time with your help. One problem - I like walnuts but a little goes a long way with me. Any distinctive dishes that have less walnut than the average (if I wanted NO walnut I guess I would go elsewhere). I am fine with the offal.
By the way Radar Guy we work in the same industry but I am not on rotation here - only 23 more months to go.
Seeing the response to your thread I may well start an Luanda, Angola, thread of my own…
Good luck, and keep safe!
Well, first off, I apologize for being so lax in my responses to the recent questions. I have been fortunate enough to attend two Georgian dinner parties (supra) and I have eaten all over the country now. I can recommend the following dishes as being particularly tasty, notquitekarpov: lobio - red beans cooked with onions, peppers, and spices; khachapuri - cheese between two layers of thin dough, sometimes called “Georgian pizza”; khinkali - meat dumplings. Much of the cuisine is very similar to dishes around the world, but with different seasonings. I am very fond of the fresh produce found at every meal. It is pleasantly surprising to find field-fresh cucumbers and tomatos at every meal, including breakfast!
Since Georgia is considered by many people to be the birthplace of wine, there are a great many good wines to try. Kakheti is thought by many people to produce the best wines, but others I have spoken with also recommend Old Tbilisi wines. As a general rule of thumb, you should not be disappointed with wines in the medium price category. I am sure that Trygve will be able to help us out with specific wine brands for you to try.