I moved to Israel because a) I’m a religious Jew and b) I’m a Zionist. Actually, I find it hard to separate the two. I didn’t grow up Orthodox, but the way I became educated was that it’s part of a Jew’s religious responsibility to live in the Land of Israel and build and support his country. So I guess also c) I’m patriotic. That probably causes me to stay more than anything else. Just like a terrorist attack on your town or country wouldn’t cause you to start packing, but to stick around and fight, my patriotism works the same way.
My wife and I speak English to each other and the kids, but we speak Hebrew at work, and the kids go to Hebrew speaking schools (and speak it better than we do).
Yes, settlers work - in all the same fields that other Israelis work. If it was a paying job, there’d be a lot more of us I, for example, work as a system administrator in a government ministry. My wife is studying architectural engineering.
Security is strict compared to Western standards, but it’s something you get used to. Don’t leave your backpack around anywhere - it will be viewed as a suspicious object. Get used to seeing people with pistols and rifles all over the place. But I’m most comforted by the security I can’t see - the Israeli army, police, etc do a fantastic job - I don’t feel threatened on a daily basis.
curwin, I hope you don’t mind me adding something…
I’ve visited Efrat (my friend was staying there with his relatives) and I was amazed at how…suburban and pleasant it was. Very nice big houses, schools with large lawns, quiet streets. In Israel proper, everyone lives in little apartments with a relatively small amount of recreation space. (It’s a tiny country!) From that perspective, it’s easy to see why someone might want to live in Efrat instead of Jerusalem.
You misunderstand the meaning of “settlement”. It doesn’t refer to the size of the place, it’s the location. Efrat is a Jewish settlement in the West Bank. The existence of these settlements violates the Geneva Convention.
As I mentioned earlier, I don’t want to make this into a debate (great or small). But the statement that the settlements violate the Geneva Convention is not nearly as clear cut as you make it out to be. In fact, it might not be true at all.
Now to get this off of the debate, and back to something personal I must share - I’m not sure that even if there was an international treaty that prohibited settlements I would use that as a resaon not to live here.
I’m not going to argue or discuss Israeli policy overall. I can tell you that Israel has a very active judiciary that goes to great lengths to protect all individuals, and even non-Israeli citizens (like Palestinians) have recourse to the courts.
What I can tell you on a personal level is how I feel about the displaced Palestinians - I feel bad for them. But my feeling bad does not mean that I think the Israeli government has made the wrong decisions. People all over the world are affected by government decisions that while not perfect, are the best possible decisions under the circumstances. Some people lose their jobs due to efforts to improve economies for the greater good. Many innocent Iraqis, Afganis and Serbs were killed in the effort to liberate their countries.
I do feel that if the Israeli army has a need to confiscate land - then it is due to the unfortunate situation that Israel and Israelis have been attacked by their Arab neighbors for the past 100 years. When the fighting ends, there will be a lot less suffering.
I am an American citizen, as is my wife, and my childen who were born here. We also hold Israeli citizenship.
Six, almost 5 and 2.
They haven’t started grade school yet (the oldest is starting first grade next year), but I’m very happy with their education until now. In general, Efrat is known as having some of the best schools in the country, so I hope their education will be great down the line.
As I mentioned before, I’m a system administrator for one of the government ministries (MCSA, CNA, CCSA).
The neighborhood is great - perhaps the thing I like best about Efrat. A nice mix of American immigrants and native Israelis, with a small mix of other (Europeans, South Americans) as well. Wonderful people who really care for each other, and come together in good times and bad - despite how busy everyone gets. The Sabbath here is really special. I’m on the synagogue committee, and we have a lot of activities designed to crystallize the community.
Today the weather was nice - clear and in the 70s (F). (I still can’t think in Celsius, but I think it’s around 26.) Efrat is pretty high up (around 890 m) so it doesn’t get as hot here as it does in other parts of the country.
So, when the fighting ends, you would be happy for that land to be returned? Would you be happy to stay on if/when you settlement becomes part of Palestine and the Palestinian goverment allowed you stay there, or would you move back to Israel?
Do you fear a Zimbabwe-like situation in the decades to come if the settlements aren’t withdrawn, or transferred back to the original Palestinian landholders?
While you explained why you moved to Israel, I’m not sure you fully explained why you moved to a settlement instead of somewhere else within Israel’s nondisputed boundaries.
You say security is tight. Tighter than elsewhere in Israel? If so, does that reflect an expected higher risk associated with living there? I would appreciate understanding why you willingly chose to expose yourself and your family to such risks.
Is it more or less expensive for an Israeli family to live in a settlement than elsewhere?
Are settlers subsidized in some manner (other than the security costs)?
Do you consider yourself an American, or Israeli?
To which country do you owe your primary loyalty?
What benefits do you incur/expect from your American citizenship?
I don’t have a gun, but many of my neighbors do. In the States, I was a strong supporter of handgun control, and I never even had a water pistol growing up. I don’t let my kids play with toy guns either.
I would consider getting a gun here, if I felt my security would be enhanced, not lowered. That would require me to have significant training in gun use, a real safe to protect it from my kids, etc.
I don’t have personal body armor. In fact, I haven’t seen anyone here walking around in chain mail. But there are people who reguarly wear bulletproof vests and even helmets on the road to Jerusalem, but the number has dropped off significantly in the past year.
Our car doesn’t have bulletproof glass, but has plastic windows to protect against rock throwing.
Israelis who have European roots tend to look pretty different from most Palestinians. Jews from Arab countries naturally look more like Palestinians and are often stopped by security forces. Most Jews that I know in those situations are pretty understanding about it - they would prefer to be checked themselves than have some suicide bomber get into the mall, or whatever. On the other hand, there have been cases where terrorists who didn’t look typically Arab were able to slip in more easily. No system is perfect.
Do you miss the US at all? If so, what do you miss most?
What was the hardest thing about your transition from the US to Israel?
Were you born in the United States or did you move there and then away again?
You mentioned that, in your religion, it is expected that Jewish people live in and protect Israel. Does that mean that Jews who choose to live out their lives in another country are somehow violating the “laws” of their religion? If so, is there some kind of penalty to be expected in the afterlife?
OK, I am viewing this through the imperfect analogy of Segregation in the American South. I would you to explain how (offically) Jews are seperated from non-Jews.
If I can to Israel with a couple of million bucks, could I (as a Christian) move into your settlement? If not, why not? Who would stop me and why excatly? What is I was a Muslim? A Buddist? An Islamic Israeli? A Syrian Jew?
I understand that keeping citizens away from non-Citizens, but I wonder if the seperation goes further than that to purely religious stuff.
(Thanks everyone for keeping this non-political, I hope my questions don’t cross the line. If they do, ignore them.)
thank you for explaining about efrat, curwin. I appreciate that you do not want his to become a debate so I will lurk until I can think of another good question for you.
You mention that your personal opinions about the situation fall within the scope of this thread. May I ask what is your personal opinion of what would be a good outcome of the current US-driven peace process? Of what would be your preferred political arrangement for the administration of the West Bank in say, 5 years from now? The existing status quo? A Palestinian state including Efrat? Efrat as an exclave of Israel surrounded by a Palestinian state? Other?
Thanks for taking the time to do this, curwin. Two questions:
Do you have any friends/family members who have been injured/killed in the Israeli-Palestinian violence that we in the US hear so much about? If so, how has it affected you and your opinions of Palastinians? (overgeneralizing, I know, but I can’t think of a better way to ask the question).
Everyone by now has heard the famous Benjamin Franklin quote: “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” It’s become something of a rallying cry for civil liberties advocates, especially in the wake of 9-11. What’s your opinion on the safety vs. security issue, as someone in one of the most terrorism-riddled areas of the world?
Not only did I triple post (already reported to mod, hopefully to be removed shortly), I should’ve said ‘liberty vs. safety’ not ‘safety vs. security’.
I forgot this one - most settlements are rather suburban - most people work outside in the bigger cities, but there are some locally employed - education, small business, etc. There are some settlements who have more heavy industry or agriculture.
I, for example, work as a system administrator in a government ministry. My wife is studying architectural engineering.