Ask the lawyer who defends jail inmates

Maybe I made it sound more complicated than it really is. It’s actually pretty simple and informal; and as I said, fairly quick–I bill Legal Aid, but it’s at Legal Aid’s rate and never for more than two hours.

On to your question. Even though they are detained in jail, inmates retain certain constitutional rights–for example, they always have the constitutional right to speak with and instruct a lawyer. They also have the right not to be forced to incriminate themselves in these proceedings–and my presence helps to remind any guards present that they may not ask questions that would result in self-incrimination.

But I think there is more to it than just that. It’s an educated guess, but I would think one reason that the system is in place to ensure fair treatment for all. The inmates have many complaints, but one thing they cannot complain about under this system is that they have no say in disciplinary proceedings that affect the few privileges they have. They have a say, and if they wish me to say it for them, I will. If they want advice on their rights, I’ll give it. To an inmate with questions or concerns about his rights or the proceedings, I’m pretty much the only person whom they can trust to give them the straight dope and to be on their side. For obvious reasons, they don’t always trust the guards to be neutral.

I don’t think it’s a priority as much as it is just one of the things Legal Aid will help out with.

There is a lot more to the Legal Aid system in my province than just representing inmates in jails. Legal Aid also supplies a lawyer to represent those who wish advice and representation in criminal docket court, and will appoint a lawyer to represent a criminal accused at trial if the situation warrants. (We have no public defenders in Canada.) In addition, Legal Aid appoints lawyers in family law matters. There are a few other areas where Legal Aid will help, but they’re escaping me right now. At any rate, the service is for those who cannot afford a lawyer but who need one; and while it’s not perfect, it works for those who need it.

You’re welcome!

Do you think this is a waste of legal aid dollars? Is there a backlog or time delay between the time an inmate requests legal aid to when you are assigned a case. Or is the whole process quick.

Could a non-lawyer perform the task?

I’m unsure exactly what you’re asking here–are you perhaps asking, “Are there better things to spend Legal Aid dollars on?”

I don’t know. Remember that Legal Aid’s primary purpose is to provide representation to those who need it but who cannot afford it. Affordability is key; there is no way a Kenneth Lay or a Conrad Black would qualify for Legal Aid. In the sense that it helps the needy, I think the dollars are well-spent.

I should add that very few lawyers hereabouts work directly for Legal Aid. Mostly, they are hired by Legal Aid on a case-by-case basis, and they bill Legal Aid at the rate that Legal Aid dictates–which is very little compared to their regular rates.

Just because I’m curious–where could the money be better spent, do you think?

It’s pretty quick. If an inmate commits an offense on Monday, I’ll typically get a call on Thursday for a hearing on the following Wednesday or so. Most matters begin and end within two weeks.

That’s a good question. Perhaps if the non-lawyer was versed in the basics of Charter law (as referred to upthread), and in interviewing techniques, it might be possible.

But maybe not. I do have to show my Law Society membership card when I check in upon arrival, which leads me to believe that only lawyers are permitted to represent inmates in these matters.

Like I said, a good question. I really don’t know.

When I needed legal aid and literally begged them for help the backlog was so full they were unable to help me at all. No advice, no nothing. Then I emailed every attorney in the county begging for help. Nada.

So, I’d have to say that those dollars could indeed be spent in better ways than on inmates who can’t behave after being incarcerated, for not behaving.

IMHO

Fair enough. I’m sorry to hear that you had a bad experience. Where are you located, if I may ask?

I don’t know if we have a legal aid backlog here. I do know that when it comes to getting a lawyer, the local Legal Aid system starts at the top of the list of available lawyers, and continues down until they find one who will take the matter. I don’t know of any qualified Legal Aid applicant for whom Legal Aid has been unable to find a lawyer, though I guess that it is possible.

I’m not in your neck of the woods, I’ll say that. I was thinking to myself after I hit enter on my last comment that the backlog may not be very heavy where you are, but it definitely is in some areas of the United States.

I was qualified for legal aid, sent them all the paperwork and such, and they never found me a lawyer. I called to get some guidance on which form I needed to send back to the judge, they were unable to give me any help over the phone (apparently the people on the phones weren’t attorneys). Anyway, sorry to derail.

Ah, you are in the United States. I rather thought that was the case; I’m glad you were able to confirm it.

I know nothing about the Legal Aid system in the USA, so I cannot comment on that. But would it have been possible to ask the judge in the court for an adjournment? For example, here, even a self-represented (for the moment) party can generally ask for and get an adjournment if they are seeking Legal Aid; and if they have been in touch with Legal Aid and have not yet been assigned a lawyer, the adjournment is virtually guaranteed. Is this something you could have done?

What’s done is done though. Again, I’m sorry to hear of your experience.

It would depend on what legal aid would or would not otherwise cover. Here in Ontario, custody and access are covered, but property is usually not covered, simply because property is lower on the priority list. For example, yesterday I was speaking with a person who has a disability income of 12K per year and is married to a fellow who has a disability income of 24K and who has ousted her to living in the basement and built a wall across the stairs to prevent her from entering the main floor of the house that they jointly own. Legal aid will cover an action for support, which would be trivial given his low income, but will not cover an action for property, although a few years ago they were covering such cases and being reimbursed out of the proceeds. It just comes down to too much demand for legal services and not enough funds. Weighed against this sort of problem, I’d be hard pressed to use legal aid funds to deal with matters that would not lead to a lengthening of a prisoner’s term, any more than I would use legal aid funds for a schoolchild who was accused of misbehaving at school. I would be more inclined to set up a lay tribunal and volunteer based representation. (BTW, as far as I am concerned, I very much appreciate and applaud what you are doing, for given the legal aid rates, it is volunteering.)

Ah, OK. Here in Alberta, property can be covered in a family matter.

I’m sure you canvassed all available avenues with your caller, but do they own the property as joint tenants? If so, you know that one party cannot shut the other party out of the rest of the house. That’s cold comfort to your basement-dwelling party, unless you make an application for an order specifying that. And if it’s a rental, then comes down to the lease. I’ll defer to your knowledge and handling of the matter though, as you know more facts than I do.

Yes, and in this economy, even we here in Alberta are seeing the squeeze. Thankfully, to the best of my knowledge, we have not hit a legal aid crunch. But Legal Aid is looking for ways to spend its funds more wisely and efficiently, and we will see what happens. I’ll admit, I’m a little worried about what they plan to do, as much of my current practice comes from Legal Aid.

Thanks! Professionally and personally, it is oddly satisfying, and I am glad to help those who need what I can offer.

I’ll second the thanks, for the interesting thread as much as for the work you do!

I used to work in what is informally called a half-way house–a private, nonsecure facility in which “clients” (criminals who either behaved well in prison or badly on probation) could come and go with permission but were otherwise incarcerated. I sat in on more than one hearing with a client who was accused of violating the rules. In the case of probation clients, it was purely an administrative hearing, but for prison clients we had the option to file it as a COPD (Code of Penal Discipline) violation, in which case it followed the same procedures as it would have if they were still in prison and broke the rules. In both cases it covered the same range of things you describe, from disrespect to staff up to what could have been criminal charges (usually drug possession, occasionally assault). The procedure was much the same as what you describe. The adjudicator for COPD violations was always a parole officer (an officer of the courts here), who was present in the room. The criminal did not have the option of requesting a lawyer, but could ask for another parole officer to act as a representative (though the “representative” was not permitted to do much more than advise the inmate on his rights).

About a year ago I was fired (long story) and the company contested (with false information) my request for unemployment assistance. I contacted Legal Aid to ask for someone to represent me in the hearing (the company was represented by a lawyer in the hearing!) and to subpoena coworkers as witnesses, but they were too busy and turned me down. If they’d been busy helping my former clients in their COPD hearings, I’d have even more miffed than I was! (In the end the hearing officer found that the firing was unjustified and so I qualified for unemployment. If they hadn’t I might have been ordered to repay the unemployment I’d already been receiving!)

Yup. I suggested moving into an emergency women’s shelter, then try to get legal aid to bend a bit and add a partion and sale to a support claim, with a lien on her interest in the property. That would be a quick and easy win, and she could then use the proceeds (net of repaying legal aid)to hire a lawyer for a tussle over the rest of the assets. What it comes down to is that most family lawyers around here are booked solid with cash clients, or with legal aid clients. Folks who are too “rich” to qualify for legal aid, but are too poor to fund their own case, are left out in the cold, hoping that they can find a lawyer willing to take their matter on spec while turning away a potential client offering a hefty retainer and ongoing cash on the dash. Quite simply, she has an excellent claim but has not been able to hire a lawyer despite calling about for a few months. Anyway, enough of me ranting about legal aid in Ontario.

How much prep do you have for most matters? Does it all take place in one day, or do you have meetings with your client well in advance of the hearing? Are you given full disclosure far enough in advance? Do you call witnesses?

I have very little prep time. I may get the paperwork ahead of time, if the recorder faxes it; but otherwise I get it when I arrive at the jail for the hearing. My first meeting with the inmate is typically a half-hour before the hearing, during which I review the paperwork and interview the inmate. I’d like to say that it takes place in one day, but in actuality, it takes place in no more than two hours. I’m often done by noon.

There is little disclosure–certainly not what one would get in a normal criminal matter. I get the paperwork, of which the most important part is the guard’s “freeform” recounting of the facts as the guard sees them. I can call witnesses–those being either other inmates or guards, as necessary–and since they’re usually available immediately (after a radio call to produce them), they can attend on the spot. On the rare occasions when a guard is not available (say, he is on vacation), we adjourn the matter until he is available–this is one example when an adjournment is okay. Regardless, if a guard is a witness, I usually have a number of questions, trying to poke holes in his testimony (remember, I am acting for the inmate). As a result of my questions, at least one guard at the local jail has me on his “shit list.” :slight_smile:

Okay, I’m retiring for the night. There are a couple of other things here that I would like to comment on, but they will have to wait until tomorrow. Good night, all!

If you don’t mind, I can tag in and comment on the US system. Until recently, I was employed as an attorney with our equivalent to your Legal Aid program. Funding cuts forced the closure of my office and my current unemployment.

Here, there is a non-profit called Legal Services Corporation (LSC), which receives a direct grant from Congress. LSC then divides that money among the programs in the states. Those funds come with strings attached–programs may not use LSC funds to handle any criminal cases, class action suits, evictions from public housing where the reason for eviction is for alleged sale or distribution of drugs, abortion cases, political redistricting cases, fee-generating cases and various other restrictions. Beyond that, each program sets their own priorities for the kinds of cases they’ll handle. State programs may serve all or part of a state, and are separate non-profit entities. My program was big on family law, housing, some consumer/bankruptcy, some public benefits, some utilities, some education cases.

Prospective clients must be income eligible in most instances. Household income cannot exceed 125% of the federal poverty guidelines unless special circumstances apply. Clients are required to pay court costs–filing fees, service of process that sort of thing. Clients are not charged for attorney time.

The need is enormous, resources are few. I was accepting maybe 40% of the applications I received. When I first started with the program years ago, my office had 3 lawyers, 2 paralegals, and 3 secretaries to serve 10 rural counties with a client eligible population of over 50,000. When the axe finally fell, the office still served the same 10 counties, the client eligible population was slightly larger, but there was only one attorney (me), one secretary, and a paralegal that was housed in my building but reported to someone in another office.

With my office closing, my 10 counties will be divided among the next two closest offices…which will now be serving 15 counties each. Clients in the most distant counties will be facing a drive of about 120 miles one way to the nearest Legal Services office. Likewise, lawyers attempting to represent those clients are facing a 240 mile round trip to go to Court in the most distant counties. Some cases can be placed with volunteers—members of the bar who agree to accept cases pro bono—but those volunteers will generally only accept the simplest of non-contested matters. Some other cases can be placed with contract attorneys, who get paid a small amount, similar to the system you work under.

I think there’s some confusion about one’s entitlement to legal services. Being represented by counsel in a criminal matter or while in custody is a legal right protected by the constitution. Being represented in a civil matter simply is not.

No, there is no confusion NGC2024.