What’the deal with the “Reorganized Church of LDS”? Is this a splinter group? Or is it an entirely different religion, with no connection to the LDS church?
Another question: which architect designs mormon temples?I find the architecture a bit strange…the style appears to fit with no style that I am aware of.
When Joseph Smith, the founder and first prophet of the church was killed, the majority of the church followed Brigham Young to Utah. There was a small minority who felt that the leadership of the church should fall to Joseph Smith’s son, and they formed the Reorganized Church. Recently, they have changed their name to “The Community of Christ” to fit more with the mainstream Protestant churches.
As far as temples, there have been many architects over the years, and many different styles.
I’m not sure I’ll be around a lot this morning, going to be pretty busy, but I’ll try to tackle some things as I can. Just checking in–wow, there’s a lot to do!
Spoof: Thank you very much for an excellent critique of that particular site’s “information.”
OK, my playdate doesn’t seem to be happening after all, so I have some time. I’m going to start where I left off, and work my way down for a while.
lel, the official doctrine of the Church is that the BoM is literally true, and most people agree with that, but not all. There is no requirement that a person believe it for membership in the Church or temple attendance, and I know of some people who do not think of the BoM as a historical document. In general, a Mormon is free to think whatever he/she wants to think, as long as he doesn’t start trying to convince others of ideas that go against doctrine; in such a case he has decided that he knows better than the prophet, whose stewardship is the whole Church. (Stewardship is a key concept here.)
I don’t know a lot about stake and ward boundaries, except that they’re fairly locally dealt with, according to needs that come up.
The Book of Mormon is considered the ‘keystone’ of our religion, what really sets us off from everyone else. The Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price are scripture, just as the BoM and the Bible are, but they aren’t quite as central to a basic undertanding of the gospel, which is what the missionaries are working for. So the BoM is really, really easy to get. The other two aren’t difficult to find, but they aren’t as important to basic missionary work.
Finally, there isn’t anything secret about temple worthiness. You just have to have a testimony of the gospel (that is, Jesus Christ), sustain the prophet and local leaders, not be a polygamist, and be keeping the commandments (such as the law of chastity, Word of Wisdom, honesty, tithing, etc.) and any obligations such as alimony or child support.
Back later…
I always though this story was so…sad. The splinter group was led by Emma Smith–Joseph’s first wife–and her new husband. It’s true they believed the next prophet should be Joseph Smith III, but that’s only because Emma hated Brigham Young (it seems, in my reading, that a lot of people did) and also because she never, ever could accept the doctrine of polygamy—that was a sticky point in their marriage and caused both of them a great deal of pain. I think that if ol’ Brigham had said “Ok, no more polygamy” there never would have been a re-organized Church.
Yosemitebabe, when you asked your question I immediately thought of Porter Rockwell. He wasn’t a Danite, but he was the Avenging Angel…
Are Mormons required to give 10% of their income to the church? Is that 10% before or after taxes??
Thanks.
This is called the Law of Tithing, and has been around since Old Testament times. The word “required” is perhaps a little strong, as you will not get kicked out of the church for not paying, etc., but payment of tithing is expected of members, and is a requirement for going to the temple. As far as before or after taxes, the church has never taken a stand on this, and has in fact stated that this is a matter which should be decided between the individual and the Lord.
cadolphin, you made me de-lurk! I’ve been hanging around for a long time and I had to post, because something you said made me real sad.
You said that you had been married in the temple to a man who apparently tried to kill you. You then civilly divorced him, and then married another man outside of the temple.
Doesn’t it bother you that in heaven, you will belong to the man that tried to kill you? And the other man will have no claim over you and will have to watch you remain forver married to your real husband, the man who you married in the temple?
I know that would really bother me. You need to contact your previous husband and request that he cancel your temple marriage. And if he does that, your current husband must become temple-worthy again and marry you in the temple. That’s the only way you can stay married to your current husband, and if he really loved you, he’d do that.
BTW, I’m LDS, temple-married for 6 years, very happy, 5 kids, and very active in the Church. And I’m very happy that my husband and I will be together with our children forever.
I wish you the best.
Thanks for answering my questions, cadolphin and genie. I did know that lime Jello is something associated with LDS culture (maybe even LDS in Utah culture – do Mormons in other locations share the affection?).
Thanks for this clarification. I had heard both that coffee & tea are forbidden, and that all caffeinated beverages are forbidden. I assume there are some LDS members who won’t eat candy chocolate, for that matter, because of the caffeine – would that be true, to your knowledge?
And do (some) people avoid things like herbal infusions, that are often called tea but don’t really contain any tea leaves? Are these included in the hot drink prohibition?
Cultural question: how well do Starbucks and other coffeehouses do in Utah/Salt Lake City? I’d think the coffee/tea prohibition would cut into their success; then again, I heard that the non-Mormon population of Salt Lake City grew above 50% recently, so there’s probably enough of a market regardless.
Thanks for doing this thread. I always feel a little guilty that I can’t come up with a compelling “Ask the…” for myself – “Ask the atheist/agnostic/whatever” just doesn’t seem as compelling.
More…
Fat Bald Guy already addressed sotally tober’s questions, except for the part about differing opinions or contradictions, so I’ll see if I can tackle that one.
The current prophet of the Church and the Twelve only come out with statements when they are in unanimous agreement with each other, so you don’t get a situation where three apostles are publicly disagreeing with the others. All that happens before they say anything. At the same time, they are supposed to be running the Church by direct revelation, so they don’t sit around and squabble, either.
The current prophet’s revelations/statements always supersede the old ones. We believe that God gives us direction for our day and our situation–so while God himself is not changeable, his advice may be. Thus we do not have a problem with polygamy being required at one time and now outlawed, because polygamy is something that may or may not be practiced depending on the needs of the people. To take vanilla’s tea question at the same time, the Word of Wisdom is also considered advice specific to our day. It wasn’t a commandment in the Early Christian Church, and it may be rescinded at some later date–at least the alcohol part–though we don’t expect that until the Millenium, after the Second Coming. However, this does not mean that the entire gospel and commandments are mutable! Chastity, kindness, and most of the other requirements of the gospel are pretty well permanent, according to the Law of Love (that is, those famous first two commandments upon which hang all the laws and the prophets).
Dragline’s question seems to come in here, so I’ll say that we don’t actually know; people don’t watch the Prophet when he’s meditating in prayer, and he doesn’t talk about it. But while most Mormons would not be surprised to find that the prophet has actually seen Christ once or twice, they certainly would not expect them to sit down together daily. Most of the time, revelation comes through feelings and the confirmation of the Holy Ghost, and from what President Hinckley has said, it works for prophets in the same way.
The trouble is that the doctrine/policy distinction is often very, very hard to draw in Mormonism. This fact leads to a lot of misconceptions both within the Church and with outsiders.
Is it doctrine if a prophet or leadership gives an opinion about something? Not necessarily, but the rank-and-file members don’t always know that. Similarly, can something be in Church scripture (e.g. the Doctrine and Covenants) but be policy and not doctrine? Sure. This is both a strength and a weakness of our Church: the bad news is that occasionally certain issues are not clearly spelled out to the letter by leadership; the good news is that Church members are expected to pray and meditate on the issues themselves and reach their own conclusions, leading us to be more free-thinking and intellectual than popular misconceptions would have it. 
As such, I think it’s sometimes hard to make really clear pronouncements on what is doctrine and isn’t.
But that’s why I love being Mormon–honestly, it’s a joy to reach my own conclusions and hold my own opinions while yet staying under the umbrella of a world-wide faith that agrees on the basics (identity of God, modern revelation, etc.).
SandiMama, you must know that this is not how it works in the gospel. In order for marriage to be eternal, the husband and wife have to have kept their covenants, and trying to kiil your wife hardly counts as that. He has broken his own promises.
(Sorry, cadolphin, not to barge in on your personal life, but I just can’t let that go. That is simply not how the gospel works.)
Yes, genie, I see your point, he has broken his covenants. But in order for her to be sealed to the man shes with now, she would have to get permission from her first husband, wouldn’t she? That’s how I understand it to work.
I wish my husband was home, anytime I have a question, he has the answer to it.
The rest of it isn’t any of our business, Sandi. I’m sure the dolphin will handle it as she sees fit.
:slight hijack:
First, I would just like to say that I am really trying to understand the Mormon beliefs. I know that I am already branded, but my questions here are going to be sincere. If you choose not to answer, that is fine, but please know that these are going to be true questions. :end hijack:
I can see what you are saying, Spoofe, but I am a bit confused.
In the BOM, it says that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, right?
McConkie is saying that they are three seperate gods.
Does this mean that a world can have more than one god, or are the other 2 gods that McConkie is speaking of of another world?
Also, I realize that maybe I am not reading something correctly, so maybe you can help me understand why the BOM says we should serve and love the only living and true God.
But there seems to be three if you are looking at what McConkie says. If there are three, are we to love and serve them too?
Also, I understand that the Mormons follow the Bible, right?
What is the BOM take on God being a jealous God? If this is the case, wouldn’t he be upset if there were two other gods besides Him?
I hope I am not being to confusing.
“God was once a man”
Existences of other gods?
I am not quite sure if I understand.
Are you saying that we have different universes and each of the universes have its own god, and each world in that universe has a god of that world? Sorry if I am totally off.
Is this taught in the BOM, and is there any support that I could look up in the Bible?
Why did you leave the LDS, Spoofe? Just curious.
I noticed that on the LDS comercials, the offer to send the viewer a Bible. With that, I am assumming that tha LDS believe the Bible to be true, is that right?
Are there things about the Bible you don’t agree with?
I’m a former mormon. I quit going to church at an early age (drove my parents crazy) because of a few things, that noone has really given me answers to. I’ve asked missionaries, my visiting teachers (out of the house for almost ten years and my mom still contacts the ward I would go to for them to come bug me).
Anyways, I really don’t agree with the concept of women being subject to man’s law at home. What is it about the man’s inherent maleness that gives him the last word with his wife? In my family, I’m much better than my husband at making decisions without using emotion. That’s just what works in my home. If I had a husband that believed that because he’s the man, he’s the decision maker, there would be constant strife at home. I get the feeling that some of the mormons posting here are female, do any of you resent that?
Also, I have two children that go to daycare while I finish my degree so I can work outside the home. I have tried being the stay at home mom, and I become depressed and am not a good mother when I have no escape from the daily demands of childcare. On the other hand, I think that I am a good mother for the amount of time I do spend with them. Is it ok for the men to be stay at home dads while the wife works? Or is it church policy (as I’ve been led to believe) that they ONLY want the men to work. Are you a bad mormon if the wife works even without economic reasons (like to stay out of poverty)?
I’ve also been subject to mormon men who only want to deal with my husband. He’s caltholic, doesn’t want anything to do with the mormons. So, they call up, ask for my husband, he won’t talk to them, so he hands the phone to me, and they act as though I’m not important enough to deal with. Which, I guess is a good thing, I allow the visiting teachers to come over once a month, I don’t have to deal with home teachers (is that it?) too.
Also, what is with the snobbery I’ve seen with all the dealings I’ve had with mormons about their “I’m holier than you and so I’m more blessed”? Really, if you think it, don’t say it.
I guess with all the examples I’ve written, what I’d like to know is what is up with the policy of women as secondary subjects in the church? If, like they say in the articles of faith that you are only responsible for your own sins and not those of Adam and Eve (which as I recall, they only talk about Adam, is that the whole point that I’m missing?), why are women treated like they are incapable of anything but raising kids? (maybe I’m a little bitter, but that’s really my take on the whole issue and I refuse to return to a church with those policies and attitudes).
**JerseyDiamond[/] let me see if I can clarify a little bit.
The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three individuals, but they are one in purpose and in actions. They are all Gods, but they are one in that they all work towards the same purpose. In the New Testament, and I can’t find the reference right now, Jesus says, “Be ye one, even as the Father and I are one,” meaning to be united in purpose, not to physically join together with each other.
There is a popular saying in the LDS church that “as man is, God once was, and as God is, man may become.” In other words, our finite minds can only grasp the universe that we know about, but at some time in the far distant past (if time really has any meaning in an eternal perspective), our God was a man in some other universe. He grew in knowledge and righteousness until he was able to create his own worlds and universes and be God over them.
We look at an embryo in the mother’s womb and realize that at some point that embryo will grow to be a man or woman, in the image of its parents. In our current stage of existence, we could be considered Gods in the embryo stage.
I know that’s hard to wrap your mind around, but I hope it helps explain a little.
They do the same thing to me, and it pisses me off.
But if you aren’t Mormon anymore, why do they come over at all? When they kept showing up and calling me, once I got their attention away from my husband,I told them on no uncertain terms that I am an atheist now and I didn’t wish to talk to them anymore.
Anywho, I wish I knew the answer to your questions. I never got any satisfactory answers either, other than the recitation of the “We are daughters of our Heavenl Father who loves us, and we love him. We will stand as witnesses to God in all time and in all things and in all places…” Which wasn’t an answer at all.
We definitely believe the Bible, but we realize that as it has come down through the centuries and passed through many hands and many translators, that some errors have crept in. Some as innocent translation errors, and some instances where translators have deliberately changed or omitted parts of the Bible to match their own beliefs. This is precisely the reason that there are thousands of Christian denominations, each interpreting the same Bible so differently. And precisely the reason that a loving God provides living prophets to clarify and guide us for today’s situations.