Ask the MRA, take II

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

There are a lot of misconceptions about the MRA (Men’s Rights Activist) movement, mainly that (a) they have no valid points to be made and (b) they’re just a bunch of whiny man-children who only exist to be laughted at and ignored. This may be true of some of them. However, some feminists really are hairy-legged, man hating lesbians. So what? We don’t gain anything by dealing in caricatures so I’ve started this thread so that I can give reasonable answers to reasonable questions about the MRA movement.

A quick FAQ:

Q. What do you, JVDaly, actually do in the MRA movement?
A. Not much. I have severe panic disorder and agoraphobia so my activities are mainly restricted to Internet stuff.

Q. What rights do you think you lack?
A. Me personally? None at all. However, I do feel that men inWestern society are on aggregate, short-changed in many ways. Some of the most pressing are:

1). Men get much heavier prison sentences than women who commit the same crimes.

2). Male domestic abuse victims in the UK only receive 2% of the sheltered accommodation available, despite making up about 30% of victims. There is also a prevailing attitude that, if a man hits a woman he’s a piece of shit, whereas if a woman hits a man…well, he must’ve done something. This is unfair.

3). Men and boys are falling farther and farther behind in education, yet nothing substantial seems to be being done about this.

4). Custody.

5). Healthcare spending on women’s health issue significantly outweighs spending on men’s healthcare issues, a fact that undoubtedly contributes to higher cancer survival rates for women and greater longevity

Cites for the above

Claim 1: Estimating Gender Disparities in Federal Criminal Cases by Sonja B. Starr :: SSRN

Claim 2: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...estic-violence

Claim 3: http://www.theguardian.com/education...hool-education

Claim 4: 2011 | Dalrock…-support-data/

Claim 5: BBC News | HEALTH | Men 'need more health care'

If anything is being done to address these disparities, I’m not aware of it.

Over to you.

2

  1. I would support reducing prison sentences for people generally. I’m not too concerned about gender gaps in prison time. I’ve met a lot criminals in my day. The men generally deserved more harsh treatment than the women. Many exceptions existed, of course. But I don’t think the statistics indicate a bias or a problem.

  2. I don’t care about this. Maybe I should.

  3. What do you propose?

  4. I had zero problem getting full joint custody when my ex and i divorced. Is this still a problem some places?

  5. I’m not troubled by this.

3

  1. The study I cited indicates a clear bias which exists even when all relevant variables are controlled for. Men and women are sentenced differently, even when they commit the exact same crimes. This is every bit as unjust as sentencing black men more harshly than white men.

  2. I think everyone should care about this. Why on Earth wouldn’t you?

  3. I’m not an educational expert, but what I’ve read indicates that less emphasis on standardised testing and more emphasis of kinaesthetic learning would behold start.

  4. Good for you. My cite, however, indicates that your case is not representative. For what it’s worth, I know people who have had the exact opposite experience.

  5. Why not?

4

I’m not sure male domestic violence victims need shelters to the same extent women do. I’m willing to admit women sometimes hit men. An ex-wife hit me once in fact. I’m all for services for men who need it. On the other hand, I have lived a long time and seen a lot of shit, and I am 100% convinced that men beating women is infinitely more a problem in our society than women beating men. I don’t care how “unfair” it is when we consider a man who hits a woman a piece of shit. Cry me a river.

5

Great OP. Well done. I have no further questions.

6

I don’t think the resources devoted to cancer research should be designed to equalize gender-related survival rates. If money spent of breast cancer research can make a difference, I’m all for it. If some researcher wants to go raise money for prostate cancer, I’m all for it. Many types of cancer are gender-neutral, such as brain, lung, colon, etc. Ovarian cancer is quite deadly, and I support as much research as possible, even if I don’t have ovaries. Complaints such as this support the notion mentioned in your OP that “they’re just a bunch of whiny man-children who only exist to be laughted at and ignored.”

7

A few points:

1). Men who hit women are scum. Women who hit men are also scum. However, the general consensus is rather different. The prevailing opinion seems to be that, while battered women are victims who need help, battered men are laughable pussies who need to sack the fuck up. This needs to change, but nobody seems to be doing anything to make that happen.

Here’s an interesting video which bears that out. It’s only two minutes long and I found it very eye opening.

2). Your post reads to me as basically saying “I don’t care because I don’t care”. I’m not really sure what to say to that. Why don’t you care?

3). My cite clearly indicates that the existing facilities for men are inadequate. This needs to change.

8

Interesting change in focus.
Female Cancers:

Male Cancer:

Is this intentional? You’re all for spending money on research in female cancers, but for male cancers you’re all for allowing a researcher to raise money, if he wants to.

9

How do you feel about the fact that, while there are definitely issues that affect men and should be remedied, MRAs online come across as women hating jerks. I’m not saying you are, mind you, but there’s definitely the notion out there. Do you think that’s a fair look? If so, is there anything that can change this public perception?

10

Yeah, whatever. Let’s spend the money on all cancers. Some research is probably more promising than other research. If “politics” results in more money going to female cancers, (and I’m not sure that’s the case) I really don’t care. I just don’t see men as victims in any of this stuff. Probably all research is underfunded. If research on men’s cancer is more underfunded than research on women’s cancer, and someone wants to raise a hue and cry about it, more power to them. However, I don’t think the problem is a reflection of men being denied their rights or society being unfair to men.

11

Got a wife or girlfriend? If so, what does she think about your MRA involvement?

If not, would you like to find one? Or does that take a back seat to your membership in the movement?

12

Unfortunately, it seems to be the way off things that the most motivated people in any social movement tend to be the most unpleasant. I’ve briefly corresponded with Paul Elam, head of A Voice For Men and I can confirm that he really is a weapons grade asshole. He is also exceptionally motivated and he’s influenced the movement in a pretty negative way. I know quite a few MRAs who can’t stand him.

Then there’s the venerable Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory, which basically states “Opinion + Anonymity = Dickish behaviour”. Nearly everyone comes off worse online than in real life. Hell, just look at the Pit! Most of the people hurling abuse in there are probably quite nice in person.

Then, finally, there’s the fact that some of these unpleasant MRAs have probably spent a fair bit of time arguing with some equally unpleasant feminists. I’m not going to ‘name and shame’ here but there are plenty of feminists out there who are every bit as awful as MRAs can be. You know the sort. The kind of woman who, when reading OPs like mine only have the capacity to bash out “LOL@MALE TEARZ!!!” kind of responses. Deal with that shit enough and it’s bound to have an effect. In fairness, the reverse is true as well. The nastiest members of each group tend to gravitate towards each other and only end up making themselves worse.

Finally, trolls.

The only thing that can change the public perception is straightforward engagement where both sides assume the best of each other. God knows how that’ll ever happen.

13

I don’t have a wife or girlfriend at the moment. This is a good thing for me because, as I stated in my OP, I’m working through some pretty unpleasant issues at the moment. I have pretty intense panic attacks on a regular basis and I’m very agoraphobic as a result. Hopefully this will pass in time but right now I’m definitely not relationship material.

I’d definitely like to get back in the game, but it’s not a priority right now.

14

Lots of people are trying to change it, actually. It’s definitely a big deal and battered men need support. There is a very strong inclination to blame the victims of domestic abuse, and when it’s a man who is the victim, that inclination skyrockets.

We have a strong cultural bias toward men being the ones in control, physically stronger, dominant, etc. Men who are abused are twice victimized: once by their batterer and once by a culture that says they are laughable and do not need protection.

15

Thanks :slight_smile:

16

Aside from pointing out some inequalities in life what do you do? Is there some kind of effort to change these things or do you just sit around whining? Do you support the Equal Rights Amendment which would make these discriminatory practices illegal? Do you think that women are not also equivalently short-changed in life?

17

Do men need shelters? I agree that the attitude of “a man that gets hit by a woman is a wimp” is prevalent, no doubt about that. And that needs to be changed. But I thought shelters were mainly for getting away/hiding.

What I’m saying is, the abusive man who comes after his wife/girlfriend to continue beating her or even kill her is quite well documented. Does the same thing happen with abusive women? Do they hunt their men down and try to beat them more and/or kill them?

Just wondering, I don’t know the facts.

18

Life’s hard, bro. It’s hard for boys and girls of all colors. Sometimes it’s hard because of stuff you do, and sometimes the universe just drops a turd on you. Personally, I think it’s unproductive to try and identify a single group as being responsible for all or some of your troubles because it’s the individual dumper you’ve got an issue with, not everyone else who is somehow superficially like them.

Taking it a step further and joining a group of other people who feel put upon only reinforces the idea that there is some level of conspiracy going on that just doesn’t exist. A fair number of human beings are cunts. Some are women, others are not. Some are from Wisconsin, others are not. Some are police officers, others are not. It seems more important, to me, to identify the cunts as individuals and proceed to live as that knowledge dictates.

But since it’s an Ask The thread, here’s a question: Why would you support a group that is, by its very nature, socially divisive over issues which it seems you personally have not experienced? It sounds like you have bigger fish to fry, and worrying about fighting oppressors who seem to have forgotten to target you is likely to further alienate you from kind people who might actually make your life better. Even if they do have vaginas.

19

Well, I don’t know about the hunting down part, but if you just think about the “I am being hit in my home. I can’t stay in my home. Where do I go?” part, then it seems obvious that men need shelters.

There would also be men who are being abused by male partners.

20

Well, that’s a bit better than calling them whiny man-children who should be laughed at.

In many ways this is more the problem than whatever ‘denial of rights’ MRAs complain about. The act of identifying a situation where men are disadvantaged becomes almost an invitation to be attacked.

I once posted here about the pathetic state of the art in Mens reproductive control, and felt like I had put a target on my back.