Ask the Muslim Guy

In My Humble Opinion
201

Muslim Guy, you have done the boards a truly fine service devoting so much of your time to giving such detailed and forthright answers to a topic that is too often foreign to most Americans.

You have addressed how Jews and Christians are regarded as people of the book. How then does Hezbollah, the Taleban and Hamas all managed to justify their own jihad against the state of Israel? I do not expect you to have a clear cut answer (although it would be nice) on this thorny issue. I am only hoping that you might expand upon it to some degree.

I am also curious as to why the mainstream Moslem faithful have not risen nearly as one to roundly denounce the actions of this renegade bin Laden. I would hope that they could institute some form of exclusion or shunning as the Christians do with excommunication. I think it would go a long way towards demonstrating to the global community that such perversion of faith is unacceptable. Does there, in fact, exist any sort of this “disinclusion” available as a form of calumny that might be applied?

Mind you that I do not expect you to have concise answers to such nebulous issues. You have demonstrated a clear and commendable knowledge of Islam and I am hoping you might shed some light upon this. I have always felt Islam to be one of the more enlightened faiths and have had to defend it in front of fundamentalist Christian preachers when they have denigrated it. I can only hope that the Moslem faithful are able to detach themselve from any inclusion in this cadre of villians.

202

Muslim Guy–

Allow me to also express my gratitude for this incredible thread. I’ve learned far more from you in the past few days about Islam than I ever did in my college religion class!

There is one thing that I have never seen answered, though. I know that only Muslims are supposed to be allowed into Mecca and Medina. Since there are Muslims of every race, color, etc., how do you weed out the believers from, say, the “I crashed a holy site and all I got was this stupid T-shirt” crowd? Have nonbelievers ever been allowed into those cities? What would happen to a nonbeliever if they did get in? My college instructor said the penalty was death, but she may have been mistaken…

If this is in any way offensive, I apologize. I have no intention of trying this myself.

203

Under what conditions can a fatwa be declared? Could someone declare a fatwa against Osama bin Laden (or whoever can be shown responsible for WTC/Pentagon)? If so, would that provide adequate justification for U.S. capturing and jailing or killing those responsible??

204

Do the different translations make that much difference.

For example, it seems to me that (IMHO) the various translations of the Bible into English say pretty much the same thing and the term “fundalmentalist” seems to mean how literally one interprets these translations. Put another way, the snake-handlers and poison-drinkers would be able to justify (in their minds) their actions no matter which translation of the Bible was used.

(The three pages you referenced seem to be direct translations of the Koran, not commentary of intrpretations.)

Thanks!

205

Muslim Guy, I appreciate what I’ve managed to lern in this thread. Now I have a question for you:

To what degree is Jerusalem (or, if you prefer, al-Quds) a religiously significant city to Muslims? Is it mentioned in the Koran or the Hadiths? Where does it enter Islamic history?

206

Let me add my thanks to Muslim Guy, Tamerlane, and the other scholars who are helping in the fight against ignorance.

I’d like to ask why 622 CE was chosen as the start of the Islamic calendar rather than 610 CE. I’m not a believer, but it seems to me that the Islamic era started with Gabriel’s revelation to Muhammad, not with Muhammad’s later decision to relocate to Medina. Did the practice of dating events from the hegira arise at the time or did it come about later?

207

Well…actually…yeah, that’s exactly what I wanted to know. :slight_smile: I was wondering if it was on an individual “do I think this is legit or are they off their rockers” basis or if it was sort of an ‘obligation just-because’ sort of thing. I figured it was the first one, but not being at all familiar with the religion, I wasn’t really sure.

Thanks to everyone who’s taking the time and effort to answer these questions! Reduction of ignorance is the first and best way to reduce predjudices (sp?).

And thanks especially to Tamerlane for the answer.

208

Muslim guy, you are a class act. The world needs more of you. This being said,

Communism, in theory, is our salvation. Share everything, need nothing and be just towards all people. Communism, in practice, is closer to the opposite.

I have no doubt that the Coran holds great wisdom, and that many Muslims - in America and abroad - are level-headed, peace-loving and tolerant individuals. But the Islam you describe in your eloquent posts is not the Islam millions upon millions of people practice.

Intolerance exists everywhere, in every faith. Islam is no exception and certainly is no worse in its fundamental tenets than Christianity or Judaism. But the fact remains - a woman can not live as she chooses in 80% of those states governed by Islamic regimes. Be it because such societies have bastardized the Coran is only relevant in that we shouldn’t (as is always the case) group all Muslims in the same boat.

But the fact remains that inequality and intolerance are more rampant in Rabat than, say, Toronto. Or Timphu, for that matter (to better leave out the East-West economic and political cleavage).

I agree that the premises of Islam are valid.
I disagree that the atrocities committed in the Middle-East against women and liberal Muslims are a fluke.

Count the number of abortion clinics assaulted per year by fundamentalist Christians. Now count the number of veiled women who are barred from schools, peaceful protesters who are executed or jailed after a mock trial in front of clerics, and you find a deep imbalance.

Is Islam evil? No.
Are a majority of those dictating what Islam is doing so oppressively? You’ve traveled extensively, Muslim Guy, as have I. So you tell me.

I can tolerate someone who tolerates me back. I have deep and very personnal issues with oppression, however. A fundamentalist anywhere is no friend of mine, and I have found through painful experiences that fundamentalism - or fanatical faith to a lesser degree - is rampant in even liberal-seeming places of Muslim inclinations.

Is it due to the Coran in itself? I don’t believe so. But the fact remains that I am an ennemy of what was considered Christianity under the Inquisition just as I can not consider myself a friend to Islam as it is conceived by legions of Veil-imposing “scholars”. Afghanistan is the most extreme case. It is not the only one, however.

“What is Islam” is a highly theoretical question. One in which your version (which is mine) can’t survive when faced by an overwhealming opposition which claims that what you might call “false interpretations” is the Truth.

So what are we to make of all those countries who use the sacred texts as tools of oppression? There is more injustice in the Muslim world than that which has been perpetrated by a few radical terrorists. What are we to do of that?

What I’m trying to say is that the Islam you teach is one I would gladly convert to. But I contest your opinion that it is the one which is prevalent in the world today. I have seen - and been submitted to - too much evidence to the contrary.

Peace to all Faiths, and thanks to you, Muslim Man, for keeping the balance in an imbalanced time.

-Q-

209

Qasper, you and the others who ask me this type of question make some excellent points. You really hit at exactly what I’ve been personally wrestling with for years.

While my inner dedication to following Islam as a spiritual path to God—something very private and interiorized—remains steady, I’ve had to reexamine my participation in the outer world where hardliners use “Islam” as an excuse for oppression. The best analysis, as in this Salon article, will tell you that this oppressive stuff isn’t coming from the religion; it’s the actions of a political system that uses “Islam” as an excuse for grabbing and holding power. Seeing my religion abused this severely, and on a huge scale, can be very disheartening and wear down anyone who cares about getting it right. Much of the time I just feel like saying the hell with it and withdrawing into my shell.

But then I have to remember that it can be (and has been) used for a lot of good too. These assholes have no right to hijack something this good and misuse it. I have to stand up for the liberal side of it before the fascists comepletely take it over.

What I’m saying to you and Shayna and everyone here is that we have a choice. Nothing is given. Life is up to us, what we want to make of it. For years I have been pointing out that Muslims have another history, another potential, that you haven’t heard about. A story of cooperation, friendship, and harmony with other religions. All you ever hear about is ugliness and conflict, but I’m saying it doesn’t have to be that way. We all have a choice. We can choose to uphold the goodness inherent in human nature. Islam has within it the spiritual support for this good side. To make it into nothing but hatred and conflict is a lie. I’m damned if I’m going to let the bad guys get away with it. We have to keep alive the side of love and tolerance and liberality. The Sufis have been doing this all along. A few in the West have noticed and joined hands with them. I guess that’s my mission in life.

Thanks for understanding.

P.S. How many people are aware that among Mahatma Gandhi’s satyagraha allies in the Indian independence movement were a nonviolent army of Afghan Muslims? The Khuda’i Khidmatgars (God’s servants) were fully committed to nonviolent peaceful change and it was based on their Islamic spirituality. This is just one illustration of what I’m talking about. There have been many over the centuries. Right now I’m working to coordinate American mosques with the peace movement. It took this to draw me out of my shell.

210

Sorry, here is the link to the Salon article that was supposed to have been in my last post:
http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2001/09/24/taliban_women/index.html

211

The world needs more people like you, MG. Word.

-Q-

212

Although I see the validity in all the religions, because they all come from the same divine origin and they’re all heading back to there, I couldn’t just follow all of them at once. Had to pick one way and stay steady with it. I didn’t choose Islam, it chose me. It worked for me personally because I was praying several times every day and the impulse to gravitate toward Islam just kept getting stronger and clearer all the time. Finally I had a heart-to-heart with Jesus and got it straight that he’s part of Islam too and I, you know, just took that last step and walked into the light. It was one of those profound inner spiritual experiences that I got a chance to find out what it’s like so I can understand what it means to other people from different religions when they testify too.

One neat thing about Islam is that it comes at the conclusion and culmination of a long chain of revelation and prophecy. That means it can see all the religions that preceded it in perspective; it lets you see how they all fit together in the grand scheme of things. It sees them all as originating from the same God and bringing essentially the same message. Therefore the Muslim is better equipped conceptually to accept the validity of all religions and not be prejudiced against them. (In theory, but in practice of course humans have an unfortunate tendency toward prejudice even when they ought to know better.)

The anti-racist liberation of Islam that Malcolm X brought out so powerfully was the answer to America’s problem with racism that I had been searching for all my life.

The main thing, though, was my search for an esoteric union with God that had taken me exploring through Kabbalah, mystical Christianity, Hindu Yoga, Buddhism, etc, for years. Finally, the Sufi path within Islam looked like the way that appealed to my heart. One thing about it is the living initiatic tradition that links back directly to the Prophet. It’s a way that combines both love and gnosis. It is at the heart of Islam’s peaceful relations with other religions. It was just too good to pass up.

I could go on for a long, long time but don’t want to bore you so I’ll stop now.

213

Is the view of the left as inferior or evil teken from
Islam (whether Qu’ran or sunnah) or is it part of older
cultural practices in the Middle East?
There are certain sections of the Torah that some Talmudim hold to be later insertions. Part of the book of Daniel, for example, is written in a different language and style than the rest. There is evidence that it was added later to convince the Jews that they were prophesied to defeat the Romans.
Qasper-The Nazis claimed to be socialists. They were clearly not. Israel and England, OTOH, have actual socialist governments. The same is true of the USSR, China and others. They claim to be communists, but act like fascists. The Crusaders claimed to be doing the Lord’s work. Mother Theresa, OTOH, actually read the New Testament and followed its teachings. The history of the Middle East is full of examples of people claiming to be Muslims, and acting like butchers. The are also examples of Muslims who truly act in accordance with the teachings of their Prophet.

214

I live on a small island (pop. 10,000 give or take) with very few Muslims on it, yet my local library has three different translations of the Koran available. One is quite a warhawk version, translated by an Imam based in Arizona, of all places: it provides an interesting variant.

Enough rambling: if you want to find a free Koran, try your library, and ask to have one brought in.

Question: What do you forsee as the best possible result of a war (which unfortunately looks unavoidable) in Afghanistan?

Thanks for your efforts here, and I hope you are getting a few hours sleep each night!

215

I saw that version of the Qu’ran in my school’s arts library too, but it looked kind of disreputable so I went and found a more cogent-seeming one in the Islamic studies library. The latter version is translated by T.B. Irving (Al-Hajj Ta’lim 'Ali).

(BTW, is the latter a name, or some sort of a title?)

216

Muslim Guy: Have I mentioned yet that I think you’re a class act :slight_smile: ? I was going to e-mail you, but since that’s not an option - Thanks for tolerating my little intrusions into your thread. Like many people that are attracted to message boards, I am pretty much incapable of not putting in my $.02 on some subjects :smiley: .

But I really appreciate you coming here and giving such a reasoned insider’s perspective :slight_smile: .

  • Tamerlane
217

OK, I have a question.

What does it take for a person to be a Muslim? What I mean is, how do Muslims decide who is a Muslim and who is not? For instance, to be a Christian you have to believe that Jesus was the Son of God and is your savior. Is there a similar creed that all Muslims believe? Is it simply the belief in one God, and that Muhammed is the last prophet of God? Is it possible to be a Muslim and not know it?

218

Yes, it actually is that simple. When you profess the shahadah, the testimony of faith: “I bear witness that there is no god but God and that Muhammad is His servant and messenger,” you become a Muslim. That’s all it takes.

See the six-point Islamic creed I already posted way upthread, I think it’s on the first page. That is like an elaboration that follows from the shahadah.

There’s an interesting thought. :slight_smile: Is there really any difference between Islam and Unitarian Christianity?

219

Excellent question, celestina (great user name, BTW!).

As I posted above, women’s prayer takes exactly the same form as men’s prayer. When women and men pray in the same congregation, they all do exactly the same actions and say the same words.

But as for prayer leading: there are differences of opinion. Some say that a woman can be the imam for a congregation of entirely women, but not for a congregation that includes men. IOW, if there are men in the congregation, a man has to be the imam. This opinion is the one that predominates.

But others say that a woman can be the imam for a mixed congregation, even when there’s an old enough male present who would be capable of being the imam. This is based on the precedent of a woman who led prayers during the Prophet’s lifetime and there was a man in the congregation who followed her. This is covered in certain Islamic feminist web sites, for example this one if you scroll down to the bottom:
http://www.geocities.com/muthram/purdah.html

The only other difference is that a man imam stands by himself out in front, while a woman imam stands in the middle of the first row. The word imam comes from the Arabic preposition amama, which means ‘in front’. But it also is derived from the root ’-m-m, which has to core meaning ‘mother’. In Arabic, “mother” (umm) means ‘that which is most important; origin, essence’. Because one’s mother is the most important person in one’s life.

220

Sorry if this duplicates another message, my browser just reset itself for no apparent reason…

In his message, following the attack and broadcast 9/23/2001, Dr D James Kennedy of Coral Ridge Ministries (locally known as Moral Ridge) made a comparison between Christianity and Islam. Based on the comments in this discussion, I found his remarks to be at best ill-informed, and at worst, hate mongering.

I’ve ordered the written transcript of the sermon and will post bits for comments when I get it, and assuming this thread is still active. Until then, you can allegedly listen to this message at:

http://www.coralridge.org/

Look for “When the Towers Fall”

I saw the broadcast on TV and have not tried the audio link, so I can’t say for sure that it works or doesn’t.

Dr K is well known in the scientific community for his vengeful and fact-free attacks on Evolution.

FWIW…

PS. add a big Me Too to the list of people who appreciate the information gained from this discussion!