wring…I think jumble was talking to me.
I didn’t make any judgements myself. I simply asked a few questions, very similar to yours wiring…if offense was taken then perhaps there is some underlying reason we have touched upon to bring said reaction.
I’m waiting…myself. I’d like to know.
need2know
Indeed it is in this context, but a defense of the debate as opposed to a defense of a certain treatment of children here that you seem to have predefined. With very few parameters as yet to identify the debated topic more specifically, I was generalizing until BR could have the opportunity to direct the topic more. Perhaps in doing so I predefined, as well. Apologies.
Indeed, also. Everyone of us has a reason for our reactions. Ergo:
etc.
Needs2know and wring, you make good points, but not necessarily toward the specific topic at hand. Possibly, but we may never know…perhaps I’ll start a similar thread when I have the time to devote.
Badtz Maru, you say you’ve used peyote; was it purely recreational or was it part of a Native American religious ceremony? Either way, how was it?
Brilliant reasoning. By the same token, I’m hopelessly addicted to driving five miles over the speed limit, downloading mp3s, and engaging in (heterosexual) sodomy. Maybe I should join a support group. :rolleyes:
Does this quote imply that you’re somehow more knowledgable than the scores of scientists, doctors, and addiction specialists who decided to make a distinction between hard and soft drugs? I could make a crack about the irony of your username, but I’ll keep my mouth shut.
“One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.”
–Martin Luther King Jr.
Badtz, where do you live that all these recreational activities are available to you? What is your favourite way to spend your time when you are high? I imagine that the answer is different for differnt types of drugs.
Dimethyltryptamine is a psychedelic, often described as a 12 hour acid trip condensed into 15 minutes. Interesting stuff, but unfortunately, it’s never available on the street.
Once again Neutron Star gets defense because of his own drug habits. Did I or did I not ask the question …"or is it a matter of assessing the degree of risk? What’s the deal Neutron do you only address the parts of the post that you choose too address? Of course I did compare using illegal drugs to breaking other laws, did I not?
So let’s do look at it with that in mind…say I don’t mind going 5 miles over the speed limit…I know I’m breaking the law…at the same time I am perhaps not actively but passively weighing the consequences of my actions. Not a terribly big set of penalties involved in a little speeding ticket provided I’m a licensed driver without a big string of tickets under my belt. My question exactly then is, what a recreational drug user is doing? Are you if not actively at least passively weighing these consequences?
What about you Neutron…since you seem to be so knowledgable on the subject…and are so in favor of the use of soft drugs like pot and psychodelics. Are you weighing the consequences of your recreational drug use or do you think about it at all? Have you assessed the consequences? Things like…what would your employer say if you got a speeding ticket?..What would he say if you got busted for possession? That’s my question.
Of course anyone else can chime in anytime they like too…
Needs2know
People use adrenaline as a recreational drug? I have to take adrenaline (Cortef) because my pituitary gland is damaged, and I cannot imagine anyone doing it for fun. Not because there are any horrible side effects but because there aren’t any pleasant ones. I think a healthy person would have to take a pretty large amount to have any noticeable effect at all, since your body will reduce its natural production of adrenaline if you are getting any artificially. Incidentally this leads to a very unpleasant and potentially fatal “crash” between the time when the drugs wear off and your body steps up natural adrenaline production again.
How about this. You could assume that children are capable of understanding the subtlety and complexity of life to a greater degree than they are generally given credit and what’s being demonstrated to them is this: Sometimes in life people will try to force their morality on you, and you’ll have to decide how deal with that. You can simply do what they want you to do, or you can fight them and accept the consequences, or you can try to find a middle ground where you do what you feel is right for you as much as possible while at the same time avoiding unecessary conflict.
Jet? Yeah, I have, in-game. 8^)
BTW, I can’t remember if that is a Deus Ex or Fallout 2 reference…but I know I tried it - wait, it is Fallout 2, 'Zyme was the drug in Deus Ex.
The DMT question has been answered in my absence. I read the trip was closer to an hour than 15 minutes, though.
Nope, have never done adrenaline.
Nitrous only at the dentists. Doesn’t do anything to me.
I have had mild hallucinations with no drugs in my system. But I had them long before I did LSD, and the frequency doesn’t seem to have stepped up. I have a theory on ‘flashbacks’. I think everyone occasionally has their brain act wonky for a few seconds. Someone who has never done any hallucinogens will just shake it off and blame it on being tired or something if they see the floor ripple. Someone who has done LSD will think it’s a flashback.
Only one drug-related problem. During an illegal search of my apartment a pipe was found, so I have a misdemeanor possesion of drug paraphenalia on my record.
The high from crack is the same as from snorting, just more intense for the amount done (you can get a bigger rush from snorting than smoking a rock, but you have to do a BIG line), and it lasts a lot shorter period of time. I personally don’t really like either, but it seems harder for me to get that pleasurable rush from stimulants than most people, 90% of the time I just feel up and jittery.
Good question. I am considering quitting because of her, actually (all I do anymore is smoke pot). At her age she doesn’t seem to distinguish smoking a cigarette from smoking a joint. We don’t smoke from pipes or bongs in front of her because she has asked questions about them before, but she refers to a joint as a cigarette. If I don’t quit, then we will have to have a talk to her about it. I have a friend with several children, ages 1 to 6 who smokes pot and all his kids who are old enough to talk know not to talk about weed to anyone, the older ones know that Daddy will go to jail if they talk about it, the younger ones are just taught that it is ‘dirty’ and talking about it is like saying dirty words.
Someone gave a capsule of heroin to a friend of mine at a party, and she gave it to me. I assumed since it was in a capsule, you had to take it orally. I spent several hours in a half-awake state feeling like I was sinking into her Dad’s easy-chair.
I started this thread after commenting on the fact that there were now 3 ‘Ask the Gay Guy’ threads, and the fact that most people who had questions would ask them without prompting. Kinda making fun of them, but I am fine with answering questions.
When I was younger I would try to prove myself cool with friends by consuming more drugs than necessary, but I outgrew that. I only take what I feel like taking, and know pretty well how much is needed to get me to where I want to be.
Purely recreational. It was in fact the first hallucinogen I ever took. Very subtle visually, things just seemed more detailed and had odd coloration. Had strong tactile hallucinations, my fingers seemed to sink into anything I touched.
Everyone breaks laws. You balance the chance of getting caught and the penalty for getting caught vs. the benefits of breaking the law. If someone speeds regularly, do they have a speeding problem? Well, if they have been repeatedly given tickets and know that getting another can cause their license to be revoked, yes. If the penalty for speeding was worse, then you would have to have some kind of problem if you were compelled to continue speeding.
I have considered my risks and I believe that the benefits outweigh the dangers. Whenever travelling with illegal drugs it is always either an amount I could dispose of between the time the police car turns the lights on and the time I pull over, or (on the rare occasions that wasn’t possible) it was hidden in a place where either it could not be found without dismantling my vehicle or in a place where it could not be proven in court I knew about it (i.e. hidden in a can without my prints on it in the bed of a pickup). These days I don’t ever travel with more than I can eat, many dealers will deliver to your home. There ARE risks, but they are negligible, and if I was caught the worst that will happen for a first-time offender with a small amount and a decent lawyer is probation. I have sworn to quit all illegal drugs if I am ever convicted of possession because with multiple offenses there is always a chance the judge will go hard on you.
I live in Texas.
With pot, I basically enjoy doing anything I normally enjoy doing, only more so. I like playing video games, playing guitar, talking, reading, or just watching TV. If high on pot, I am never bored though, I can just sit doing nothing and enjoy my own imagination.
I don’t really like cocaine that much, about the only thing that is fun to do on it is talk, and not always then. I heard sex was good on it too, but most uppers make it close to impossible to get an erection. Used to play Trivial Pursuit with some friends I used to do coke with a lot, but I would frequently miss really easy questions. I get frustrated easily playing video games or guitar on coke or most other uppers.
Methamphetamines for some reason made walking around and other physical activities pleasurable. I also liked just watching my surroundings on it, you can notice a lot more detail than normally.
Best thing to do on LSD is be with other people you trust who are also tripping. Once you start from there, all kinds of things can be fun. Once we spent two hours watching Spanish-language television and making up our own dubbing as we went. Avoid dark thoughts at all cost. 8^)
I’ve only recently done good Ecstasy, with that it’s always good to just be close to other people - giving back rubs, having sex, etc. I also found that it really enhances my guitar playing, making me a lot more accurate. There is one fingerpicking piece I have known how to play for years, but I have never been able to play through the entire song without making at least one minor mistake, until the first time I tried playing it on X.
Badtz…How long have you been smoking pot? And have you experienced any paranoia or bad effects, like forgetfulness, or inability to concentrate?
You say you’ve considered quitting for the sake of your children, does that mean as a parent you would not condone or advocate recreational drug use from your children? What do you think of having children keep silent about a parents drug use when mainstream society and everything they learn in school tells them it’s bad? Do you think it is something that can be addressed?
Oh yeah…how old are you anyway? Old enough to have smoked “12 volt” in the 70’s?
Needs2know
Thanks. This is where I find it interesting.
Often when folks state they are “recreational drug users” they mean: They use substances as a recreation, mood altering. and B. They do NOT consider themselves to be addicted.
As I mentioned in another thread, risks involved with mood altering substances include possible physical harm (through say liver damage from alcohol, lung damage from cigarettes), addiction (any variety), physical arm (through stumbling or driving under the influence for example), family or relationship problems, school/work problems, and legal problems. When evaluating behavior risks one needs to think out the relative value of each and every single one.
You do seem to see a potential problem area when dealing with children in the house. I applaud that. Your friend has not asked my opinion on his choice, so I will not offer it.
you did miss my other question (although I know you had a lot to catch up with) that asked “at what point do you think some one has gone from ‘recreational use’ to ‘problem use’?”
I’ve been paranoid on pot before, mainly because I remembered something I had done that could come back on me, I continued thinking about it and my imagination made things seem worse than they were. I’ve never had paranoia as bad as some people have, when I was a teenager I had a friend who was convinced that everyone could tell he was high when he got high enough, and another I could make very nervous by telling him cops were hiding EVERYWHERE, on top of the covered parking, in the bushes, etc., and always ducking out of view whenever he turned his head. I was generally the voice of reason among my friends when we got high, though.
My ability to concentrate is increased on pot, many things that require concentration become easier for me when high. I do get forgetful at times while on it, though it doesn’t seem to make me more forgetful at times I am not.
I think parents who use drugs should have candid discussions with their kids when they get old enough to understand. I think simply by telling the truth any kid who respected and listened to me would probably never want to do many of the more dangerous drugs, and to be very careful if they wanted to try pot. They would learn from what I had learned. If they wanted to try pot, I would probably smoke some with them.
I am 27 years old, the first time I smoked pot was in 1983, so I don’t know anything about ‘12-volt’. Sorry. 8^)
Well, a real easy answer to this would be when doing the drugs caused problems. If you are missing work, having health problems, getting in legal trouble, and still doing drugs, you have a problem. I had a drinking problem in my early 20s, I would often drink until I passed out, I would black out and do things I normally wouldn’t that hurt my personal relationships, I experienced a lot of problems related to alcohol. Luckily one of the ones I missed was addiction - I realized what it was doing to me, and I quit. Several months later I started drinking again, but never to excess - for almost a couple of years I would drink a beer or two if offered, but I would never get drunk. These days I will drink a six pack over the course of the night and get pleasantly buzzed, but I never drink alone and I never let myself drink more than that. I went from recreational use to problem use to no use to social use to recreational use again. I don’t think I will repeat my previous mistakes, especially now that I don’t have a lot of the other personal problems in my life that contributed to my wanting to drink a lot in the past.
I quit cocaine (which I never liked very much) because my wife had a problem with it in her past and I didn’t want to do anything that she couldn’t share with me.
Hey Baltz,
Interesting thread. How come you never tried mushrooms? Aren’t they in fact problably one of the most “non” harmful drugs on the body and brain?
Also do you think about God alot when you are stoned? If not I know alot of people that do. Why do you think that is?
Not saying I do drugs I found Christ you know but I used to. And I always found myself thing about God when I was stoned.
Hey Bill …I might be able to answer that one for you…availability. Badtz did say he lives in Texas…probably more common there than where I live though.
Badtz…I blacked out on pot once. Scared the shit out of me. I was 17 at the time. I was spending the weekend with my older girlfriend. She lived in a rooming house in town. That evening she had to crash early so she could get up. I couldn’t sleep with all the traffic noise so I went downstairs to the common room to read. Earlier in the day she had introduced me to a couple of people that lived in the building, including this guy that was sort of the “super”. He came in and asked me if I wanted to come to his room to smoke a joint. I did. We sat on his bed and burned one. He had his own bathroom and I had to go. It was one of those old houses with a bare blub fixture and a pull chain. Evidently when I reached for the chain I blacked out. A few minutes later I was laying there in the tub thinking…“Mama I don’t want to get up yet.” Someone was knocking on the door softly and calling my name. I could see the light from the other room casting a beam through the crack. My face was throbbing. When I realized where I was I sat bolt upright. I had hit my face on the side of tub when I fell in I guess. Freaky experience since before then I had never had any strange effects other than the “munchies” and being what we used to call “crispy”. I was a very heavy pot smoker during my teen years right up until I had my first child at 25, then I quit for about 5 years.
I have off and on for years though experienced something really strange…Sometimes when I’m really stoned I can’t urinate right away. I will feel pressure in my bladder but when I try it is almost like having a bladder infection, I have to force myself. It hasn’t happened to me recently but during a bout of more frequent use about 10 years ago it happened all the time.
Anyway, just wondering about the paranoia thing. I can’t drive and often cannot go anywhere stoned. Sort of like your friend. I feel like everyone knows I’m high. I also look pretty bad. I get a terrible case of “small eye” so I know everyone can tell. I don’t even do well riding in a car if I’m stoned. Everything freaks me out, like a car pulling up to the intersection. Strange to have developed that characteristic after all these years. After all when I was in high school we rode around and got high all the time.
Needs2know
I think about all kinds of stuff on pot, including God. I used to consider myself agnostic, though for the last couple of years I have felt the presence of something that might be God. I do feel closer to it when on pot.
It’s odd that I have never done mushrooms, because the town I used to live in was kinda well known for having a lot of shrooms at certain times of the year. I knew people who would gather trashbags full and just give them away. I just never happened to be around when the shroooms were.
It is impossible NOT to assess the consequences, absolutely. I’m assuming you agree and are directing the question at those that may not watch TV. We are bombarded with possible consequences everyday, through all sorts of media. Most of these I have found to be entirely false for myself; sort of like trying to hit the problem-user demographic bullseye with a blunderbuss. If we could focus more on responsibility than demonizing…but that’s another debate.
The employer issue never crosses my mind, N2k. I understand that possibly in the nature of your job, a possession charge may have negative effects on you and your family from an economic standpoint. But it is much less an issue for many people, especially for those of us that are self-employed or otherwise secure that our employers would be indifferent and/or completely ignorant of a “bust.” (I mean, we are talking recreation here and not the wholesale distribution of bales of marijuana.) I would never announce a speeding ticket at a staff meeting, much less an arrest of any kind, but that’s sort of a humorous trot-around. I understand your point, and this is my answer.
Along with the fact that I try not to do anything stupid so as to have to worry about it in the first place.
And I have the hesitant urination thing, too. I’ve no theory on that, though.
I don’t think it quite follows, 2know. You can be hardcore pro-marijuana legalization and still recognize that mind-altering substances are not healthy for a developing brain. Hell, when I have kids, they ain’t touching coffee until their late teen, fer Chrissakes.
If your question instead was whether kids should or shouldn’t use drugs when they grow up, for myself, it will be my (hypothetical) children’s choice on whatever (non-hurtful to others) activities in life they want to do, legal or illegal, once they are mature enough to make such decisions – whether or not I approve of their choices.
Sua
Thanks Badtz. We agree far more than we disagree.
Jumble…I was only using that as one example there could feasibly be many such questions, do you not agree? And then risk might be weighed differently by each individual, which you pointed out. So assessing the damage has got to be from a personal standpoint. Mine being different of course because I’m a single woman rasing two kids. A simple possession charge might not do much more than put me in a small financial bind or make more demands on my time. (Like going to court, paying fines, or doing community service time.) Having my kids find out I got busted might cause the greatest impact. It simply depends on your own personal situation. (An old girlfriend of mine got busted a few years ago and it made her feel like an idiot. She couldn’t believe all those years when she’d smoked pot regularily and never gotten caught. Here she was a 30ish mother outside I concert with an old friend she hadn’t seen in years, and she gets busted. She only smoked a couple of times a year if then.)
Hesitant urination too huh? I’ve only known one other person, on another board to ever mention the problem. It can be frustrating.
Needs2know