I’m reading the rest of that thread you linked to, Enola Straight. There was an article a while ago about some fMRI research that could possibly aid in diagnosing “transgenderism”. Some of my friends were offended, as though it would be used to separate us into two groups: those who were “truly” trans and worthy of care, and those who were mistaken. What if I’m dealing with crippling dysphoria, but my brain isn’t sufficiently “feminized” or whatever? This reminds a lot of us of gatekeeping in the medical practice, where we either had to perform our genders convincingly enough for care, or granted (denied) care based on how well we would blend (not blend) into cis-hetero society.
Gender dysphoria is such a weird and unique sensation that I don’t really think it needs external confirmation. I used to read case studies when I was younger, and every other one would have me muttering to myself, “Ugh… god damn it. I really have to deal with this?”. Similarly, when I would talk to other trans people, they would just know things about me which felt impossibly intrusive. Given the increased visibility over the past decade, trans people will figure it out sooner rather than later.
Regarding trans people who experience no dysphoria, I can’t say I understand what that’s like. I think there’s a minority of dysphoric trans people who believe that their own suffering is somehow delegitimized by the non-dysphorics’ existence. I personally can’t bring myself to care.
Would “trans with no dysphoria” mean “oh, I’m actually [gender] but I’m fine with my body” or would it mean “I chose to become a [gender]”? I’ve heard both, with very different accompanying behaviors and expectations.
Out-of-left-field question: how do you put heavy makeup over beard shadow without having your face break out massively? It’s all I can do to manage ingrowns from regular shaving.
• Do you think they have a point about the dilution of what “transgender” (or even “transsexual”) used to mean, and that expanding it to cover all kinds of gender-identity variations is going to detract from the understanding and recognition afforded to original-model transgender (now referred to as “binary transgender”) people?
• And what about those other types of gender-variant people and the truscum folks’ attitudes towards them? Do you agree that “either you’re trans, in which case you seek to transition or you’ve done so, or else you’re cis, there’s nothing else”?
• Do you think that people who consider themselves gender-variant but aren’t transitioners have political-social issues that are worth people paying attention to, or are they just transtrenders trying to be edgy and socially relevant?
• If you do think they have relevant social-political issues, do you think they should pursue them from within the transgender “big tent” or should they go form their own groups or movements since their concerns are different?
RR, thanks for being so open. I’ve learned so much this morning!
I’d like to hear your take on this, if you think it’s relevant: A couple I know has a child born with male characteristics who is far more comfortable identifying as female. This child is only 9, but the parents are considering hormone therapy now to prevent the child from developing male sexual characteristics at puberty.
At first I thought this was nuts. We learn so much about ourselves during puberty. How can anyone truly know who they are and how they identify without letting those changes kick in? What if these early hormone treatments only serve to make a confusing time even more confusing?
On the other hand … if the child somehow absolutely knows she needs to be female, why let her develop male sexual characteristics that run counter to that identity?
I’m a straight cis guy (if you hadn’t guessed), open to everyone but still learning. Thanks again for your insight!
Most of the time, the child doesn’t absolutely know that.
Cite. And puberty blockers are not necessarily innocuous. Nor are the long-term effects of administering such drugs known, especially on those who later decide they are no longer transgender.
Maybe your friend’s child is going to stick with the female identification for life, but the likelihood is pretty far from absolute. And there are potential risks no matter how the parents proceed.
So is Cantor’s conclusion fair? Is it really true that most with dysphoria will desist and become gay or lesbian? Well… no. The actual conclusion we can draw from looking at this and other studies relating to this area of study is that this area of study is an absolute mess.
But I don’t really want to get into a debate – I want to hear what RR thinks.
Messy, yes. I am not so sure about the other part, especially since the author mentions not actually having read the studies in question, pleading poverty. Nor is the author an unbiased source, if it comes to that.
Being gay or lesbian is not the same thing as being transgender, as I assume you will agree. So that is not quite the question being discussed.
A conclusion we can’t draw is that children are “absolutely” sure of their gender identity, and that puberty blockers should be the treatment of choice.
This is not an “Ask Shodan” thread. If you want to ask the OP questions go ahead. If you want to give your opinions or debate the issue do it in another thread. Do not hijack this one.
I don’t know. I’m not certain I’ve ever met anyone in real life like this, although I’m told that they exist. Online, when people discuss this, they occasionally mention “gender euphoria”, where they don’t feel particularly awful pre-transition, but feel better post-transition.
My facial hair is very coarse and very straight, and consequently I don’t recall ever getting ingrowns. My acne completely cleared after going on estrogen, although prior, heavy makeup would make my T-zone break out. As far as how to actually apply the makeup, apply a color-corrector with a red tone to cancel out the blue of the shadow. Set with powder. Go over with a full-coverage foundation. Dermablend, Kryolan TV Paint Stick, and RCMA diluted with some 244 all seem to work fine. Of course, it’s going to look not only heavy but inappropriate in most situations. It’s one of the reasons I don’t bother.
Jeez, these next questions are really trying to get me to stir the pot, I feel. I’ll reiterate that for this entire thread, I only speak for myself and my own personal experiences. For those of you who aren’t waist-deep in online trans discourse, “truscum” refers to the belief that transgenderism should be defined in medical terms, and that gender dysphoria is an essential – if not defining – characteristic of what it means to be trans. “Truscum” started as a pejorative, although many online describe themselves as “truscum”. On the rare occasion when I talk about this stuff, I use “transmedicalist”. The (grossly oversimplified) transmedicalist argument is something like, “I have a legitimate mental disorder that causes me unbearable distress. You interlopers are ignorant and faddish and are adopting my condition as an aesthetic to be socially relevant.” The (also grossly oversimplified) counter-argument is typically something like, “Gender non-conforming people who don’t adhere to the binary have always been part of the trans and queer scenes, as well as society as a whole. You’re simply ignorant of history, and are frankly an asshole who exploits her self-pity for acceptance by the medical establishment and cis society.” I personally don’t see anyone making these arguments in real life. It all seems confined to Twitter (and Tumblr I am told. I’ve never used Tumblr.)
I was far more sympathetic to a more extreme transmedicalist point of view when I was younger. For better or for worse, I still think of my transness as a psychological disorder. I don’t mention this in trans circles for a couple of reasons. One is that this conception is distressing and invalidating to a lot of people, including people I consider my friends. The other is that many people who make this claim are provocative assholes. I’m not talking about the majority of humanity, who probably think similarly but have little exposure to this world. I’m talking about sexologists like Ray Blanchard and trans people like Blaire White. (Blaire is sort of the Milo Yiannopoulos of the trans world.) Most transmedicalists, as well as myself, will tell you that we’re not joyful about this situation. I see it as a cruel existence where I’m forced to – on a fortunate day – publicly display my insecurities and fears to the rest of the world. I know other people who feel similarly. They will say some bleak shit.
I use “transgender” as an umbrella term to encompass a pretty broad swath of gender non-conformity. I use “transsexual” when talking about people looking for medical help. Most of the time, though, the distinction isn’t important, and I just say “trans”. I don’t feel that the more… uh… non-classical people are detracting from me in any way. I can advocate for myself. I would also find it hypocritical for me, who is dealing with something that 99.5% of the population simply cannot understand and will never experience first-hand, to turn around and claim that this other group of people are all delusional. I tend to not get along with these folk, though, not because we’re (possibly) fundamentally different, but because they tend to be in their late teens and early 20s and are thus insufferable. The few I know my own age are very cool.
Again, I mainly think in terms of people’s actions, struggles and desires rather than get hung up on who “is” or “isn’t” trans. I know that explanation seems like a slippery dodge. Oh well. People are just trying to live their lives.
Well, the societal acceptance of gender-variant behavior benefits me directly, so I’m not going to stop them from fighting their fight. If this truly is all some bizarre social phenomenon, it will work itself out at some point, and I’ll still be here. They certainly seem sincere though, and they respect me. Why wouldn’t I take their concerns seriously?
I’m of the age where some of my friends have young children. A couple of them are highly gender nonconforming. I have a personal policy to not give advice about kids. I’m not a therapist, and I’m not a doctor. Cantor would insist that I am fundamentally different from these kids, and that my personal experience is irrelevant. Maybe. Maybe not. Being trans doesn’t make me an expert on anyone but myself.
I have a hunch that this wasn’t the answer Shodan was expecting from me, which is why they felt the need to respond.
I am friends with some gender therapists who surely have access to the paywalled literature. I’ll get around to reading it at some point.
Before estrogen therapy, I was 5’9" and 125 lbs. I was not a strong dude. When I was 19, I dated a guy who suggested that I bulk up a bit, so we would regularly hit the campus gym for about a year. I simply could not gain any muscle. This was apparently my testosterone-fueled plateau. I assumed that as I hit my late 20s and early 30s, I would fill out in some manner. That never happened. (As an aside, being this size means I can climb effortlessly, and I can outrun most people.) I mention this because, when I first met with my endo, we ran down the list of effects that I should expect from estradiol. One of them was decreased muscle mass. Of course, my response was, I simply have nothing to lose.
Christ, was I mistaken. My wife has about 45 pounds on me, and is about 4 inches taller. She is way more physically capable than I am now. I would say most cis women my age probably are, surprisingly. When I pick up one of the cats, I have to now mentally prepare with an “OK, pickin’ up the cat”. Objectively speaking, the cats are not heavy. My last blood panel showed that I’m still rapidly shedding muscle. I don’t know where it will end. I don’t feel embarrassed or emasculated (well, you know what I mean), but I’m still wrapping my head around this being a new normal. It’s more fascinating than anything else.
Fitted solid-color t-shirts, typically with some asymmetrical cut for visual interest. Skin-tight jeans, usually black, blue, or maroon. Large sunglasses and a black oversized sunhat. Depending on the weather, black gladiator sandals, some vinyl “combat” boots, or some sort of ankle boot with a low heel. It’s winter now, so I typically have a long cardigan or a blazer. Sometimes a chunky knit sweater. Jewelry tends to be large semi-precious stones. My earrings are all dangly, and commonly incorporate things like beetle wings or mink jawbone. I have a bright green Alexander McQueen silk scarf with a butterfly print that I love dearly.
Colors are predominantly black, ink blue, wine red, blush pink, or gold. I like loud floral patterns, geometric patterns, and insect motifs.
Thanks for your thoughtful answers, Ronald Raygun. And for doing this thread. Yes, I did sort of put you on the spot and dare you to stir the pot, sorry about that. I identify as a gender invert and claim that it’s a subform of being genderqueer, so I’m one of those non-traditional variants. (I’m not in my early 20s though, I’m 60). For what it’s worth, I have some respect for the truscum / transmedicalist attitude, at least for the part about “we worked and bled to bring our issues to the forefront of public awareness and don’t want the term to be diluted and expanded beyond recognition”. I don’t tend to identify as “transgender” for that reason (and, well, because everyone assumes stuff that isn’t correct, and because I run into gatekeeper types who would say I’m not, anyway). In all honesty, I’ve gotten 500 times more flak from liberal-minded socially tolerant cisgender hetero types than I’ve ever received from transgender folks. I think people like me need to fight our own battles and explain our own social issues, although using folks’ familiarity with the concept of transgender people seems like a legitimate starting point. I hope to be a worthwhile ally to transgender folks and to be supportive on the issues that don’t directly affect me (such as medical and insurance issues pertaining to transitioning, and bathroom rights etc). Your courage inspires me and I aim to follow your example. But it’s a different thing, it’s something else, and we need to speak out about it.
Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions.