Ask the Web Designer/Web Host

In My Humble Opinion
1

Things are slow at work so I figure I’d start a little “Ask The…” thread of my own.

Personally, I’ve been building sites since 1997. Professionally, since about 1999.

I own a small company (since 1999) that includes me, my partner and one sales/support/secretary person. This is no hobby - this is a full-time job for all of us. Incidentally, we all work from our homes.

We design Web sites and intranets for very large and very small companies and everything inbetween. We have also written and sell some web-based software (which means a tool that is available from any browser that you log into and use - as opposed to download and install on your machine, although people that purchase it from us download it and install it on their own Web servers)

We also have our own servers (leased - they are not physically present here) and host Web sites and email for varying degrees of businesses and organizations.

Our main focus is ASP and ASP.NET-driven sites using MS SQL databases and our servers are all Windows servers. We do not generally program any PHP or use MySQL although some of our clients do and we have to dabble in it occasionally.

Please note on this thread…while there are standards in web design rules (based on the W3C), web design is a highly subjective field. I am not wanting to cause any arguments or get into any arguments with people here as to what is “right” or “absolytely best” - just give my opinions, answer specific questions as to why/how WE do things at our company, and maybe give some coding help. I do not want to argue about languages or platforms. Other Web designers are totally free to give THEIR opinions or examples of how they work, but let’s just keep this friendly.

2

Do you focus more on the design aspect or the functionality/navigation aspect?

Do you have any formal training in web design?

What programs do you use for most of your web development?

3

[QUOTE=wasson]
Do you have any formal training in web design?
[/QUOTE]
My question too…just repeating it so I can subscribe to the thread.

4

[QUOTE=wasson]
Do you focus more on the design aspect or the functionality/navigation aspect?
[/quote]

Functionality for sure. A lot of our projects right now come “pre-designed” by other firms that JUST do design (we like to call them “pretty pictures”)…like the client’s ad/marketing firm.

We take those pictures and plug in all of the HTML, dynamic data and code, DHTML and put a backend on it (admin tool).

When we do sites from the ground up, I always stress function over form - especially for business sites, and push my clients into getting rid of non-essential pictures (for load time) and making things easily navigable. But of course they’ve all got to look good.

No. Not me or my partner. I got a BS in journalism from Kent State in 2001. I had already been dabbling in doing sites with the company since then. My partner had studied music or something at UGA. When I found him he was a day trader doing simple sites.

I will admit though I did take 2 workshops (PHP and Javascript) in college, and one really bad “designing for the Web” class in college.

My ultimate favorite is HomeSite 4.5 for editing. But I couldn’t get their publishing tool to work and my partner and I kept writing over eachother’s work so we switched to Visual Studio 6 for Source Safe. I still use HomeSite when I do projects on my own.

Photoshop is my main graphics tool. CoreFTP is my FTP client. We use Windows’ Remote Desktop to get on the servers. We also use Visual Studio .NET when we do .NET projects.

And of course you have to have a stash of browsers so you can check all your sites - Netscape 4.7, Netscape 6, Netscape 7, Firefox 1, Firefox 2, IE 6, IE 7, Opera …on Windows. And we keep a little Mac Mini around with Safari, IE 5.5 and Firefox on it for testing.

5

When fitting the “pretty pictures” into a dynamic website, do you usually opt for a table-based layout or semantically correct CSS based layout? Also, in the age of AJAX, don’t you find DHTML to be a little dated and inflexible?

Do you stress “non-tangible” aspects of the websites you produce in your sales pitch, like SEO and accessibility?

Where do you get most of your clients?

6

What design flaw (in other people’s sites) is your pet peeve?

7

[QUOTE=wasson]
When fitting the “pretty pictures” into a dynamic website, do you usually opt for a table-based layout or semantically correct CSS based layout?
[/quote]

Usually tables because that’s what I’m best at. Haven’t run into problems yet. CSS layout seems to have too many cross-browser limitations. But like I said, I’m just not a CSS pro and tables work great.

I consider DHTML to be JS-manipulated HTML. Isn’t that what AJAX is? Basically we do what works best and most efficiently. Honestly I just looked up what AJAX is a few days ago. Apparently we use it but we don’t call it that.

We don’t do any SEO stuff ourselves like researching keywords or submitting to search engines. We do help them make good design choices based on simple SEO and accessibility rules like using CSS text instead of images, eliminating “click here” and not making things too Flash-heavy.

But no, our sales pitch never makes any claims that your site will be the best on The Internets or will be top-ranked. We sell people sites that work, look professional and are easy to navigate and update. Clients like to hire other firms to do specific SEO stuff which in turn generates business for us because for some reason SEO firms can’t actually do any technical work - just make suggestions. In my experience, anyway.

But, we’re always mindful of best SEO and accessibility practices for each client as we go through the design process.

So far we haven’t advertised in the 8 years we’ve been in business. We’re not even in the phone book. We list the software on free script sites and occasionally pay for advertising.

Our smaller clients come from word-of-mouth, as do our hosting clients.

Our mid-range clients come from other firms (such as SEO and advertising) that like to sell Web sites but don’t know how to make Web sites. They do all the client stuff and we get the project done and turn it back to them.

Our two largest clients came via other firms who hired us as consultants to do a bunch of technical things they couldn’t do for their clients. The larger firms went belly-up and the clients made us their main Web firm. We “lucked” into the positions by being good, efficient and flexible (small).

Our software clients just sort of find us. Apparently we’re popular in Europe. The software is cheaper and more robust than competitors so we’ve got the lower price/higher volume ratio working for us.

8

[QUOTE=Mangetout]
What design flaw (in other people’s sites) is your pet peeve?
[/QUOTE]

Hard to say, I guess. I really hate professional sites that don’t look professional - ones that obviously came from a FrontPage template or some poorly-done CMS. Broken links and old data also upset me.

Just drives me nuts to see those bad professional sites that I know businesses have paid good money for and gotten ripped off. Or worse - companies that don’t find it important enough for customers to have a good Web experience and settled for something very poor because it was cheap.

I don’t get worked up about personal sites, though. I really like the idea of the Web as a collection of information. I know how hard it is to be “The Unofficial Web Site Of X” and keep all the info stored and updated. If you’ve bothered to scan an article from an obscure magazine about one of my favorite topics and posted it on your site, I could care less how bad the surrounding site looks.

9

[QUOTE=ZipperJJ]
I consider DHTML to be JS-manipulated HTML. Isn’t that what AJAX is? Basically we do what works best and most efficiently. Honestly I just looked up what AJAX is a few days ago. Apparently we use it but we don’t call it that.
[/QUOTE]

The difference between AJAX and DHTML is that AJAX will use XMLHttpRequest (or something similar) to request data from the server without loading an entire new page.

10

[QUOTE=Rysto]
The difference between AJAX and DHTML is that AJAX will use XMLHttpRequest (or something similar) to request data from the server without loading an entire new page.
[/QUOTE]

Then yep, we do use it. Just used it in a project that is a sort of eZine - use it to let people add to favorites, rate articles and rate comments in “real time” without re-posting the entire page.

11

[QUOTE=Rysto]
The difference between AJAX and DHTML is that AJAX will use XMLHttpRequest (or something similar) to request data from the server without loading an entire new page.
[/QUOTE]

AJAX is kinda DHTML. Using Java-script (XMLHttpRequest) to manipulate the DOM.

DHTML, though, is not supposed to refer to things which retreive data from the server.

12

I have been doing web design for about a year, and have recently started freelancing professionally.

I see myself as both a web site designer/ coder (the technical aspect) and as a graphic designer (the aesthetic aspect). But most of the web people I know are one or the other, but not both. What are you?

You see, not only will I code and layout the site (I am a CSS devotee), but I also design all the graphics. I will design a logo, a banner, a “brand identity” and theme. I will make all the icons, graphics, buttons, toolbars, etc., for the site. One of the hardest things I do is coming up with a color scheme! I find that alot of the coders I know have no taste in color. It’s a lot harder than one might think to come up with a pleasing color scheme.

So in your experience, do most web designers have to have good graphic design skills too? Or do the clients usually come to you with graphics, logos and a banner already made, and you just plug it into the site?

Oh on a side note, I know what you mean about seeing a crappy site and knowing that the cutsomer got ripped off. The company I worked for recently hired a “web designer” to redo their site. He was the lowest bidder. Months later (for a job that should have taken 2-3 weeks) he returns with utter crap, something that looks like a 12-year-old made it. He still got paid several thousand dollars, and we scrapped all of his “work” and I had to redo the site from scratch myself.

13

Why does my site, www.panthanpress.com, center in IE but not firefox? What code do I put in to make it center in firefox?

14

[QUOTE=nyctea scandiaca]

So in your experience, do most web designers have to have good graphic design skills too? Or do the clients usually come to you with graphics, logos and a banner already made, and you just plug it into the site?

[/quote]

If you’re going to be a one-person team, yes you have to do it all. It is very rare to see someone who can do all three things (more in a sec) well.

Our company started as 3 people - one guy who is whiz-bang with the high-end technical stuff. Databases, dynamic programming, new technologies, etc.

The other guy is amazing with graphics. One of the best Flash artists I’ve ever seen and super with logos and color schemes. A true graphic artist.

Then there’s me, who knew enough about layout/navigation/content and HTML to put the first two folks together. Oddly enough, neither was that proficient at HTML.

I get the cool job of taking the awesome designs and graphics, laying them out in HTML and then applying the dynamic code in places where it should be. I like to think I “make it all happen” but there’s no way I could do it all myself.

I CAN do it all myself, to a degree. There’s a lot of nice sites out there done 100% by me. But that’s after 7 years of working and I will be the first to admit that my design/color skills are maybe B-grade work at best (after 10 tries). And while I can do a million more things now with ASP than I could do when I started I will never catch the technical guy in his skills. The graphics guy and the tech guy both do A+ work, and I do A+ work - but none of us in all 3 areas.

The graphics guy has since moved on, because there was no work for him. Layouts would take like 1% of the project time and we couldn’t afford him full-time. Seems like now most of our clients come to us with sites designed (statically) by someone else (advertising/marketing firms) and I still have to cut them up and apply the HTML and dynamic code. We make a fine living doing that.

And so far my experience has been that the advertising folks who design for our clients, while they do beautiful static work, have very little understanding of how sites should flow, how HTML works and what dynamic data is. I see the same thing when we re-do sites that have some nice dynamic programming. Just did one site that was quite robust but looked like utter crap.

The Web is a work in progress. We make a ton of money cleaning up others’ messes :slight_smile:

15

[QUOTE=Elmo Lincoln]
Why does my site, www.panthanpress.com, center in IE but not firefox? What code do I put in to make it center in firefox?
[/QUOTE]

I’ll take a look at it in the morning on my other machine with more tools.

Right off the bat, though, it looks like you have some syntax problems with your Javascript. You’re also trying a little too hard with the positioning - everything could be set into one encompassing element and centered instead of using JS and CSS and math to center it.

But we’ll get it fixed up in the easiest way possible (without you having to change a bunch of code).

16

This is almost a personal aside, relating to your experience at Kent State. Was the “design for web” class in conjunction with the Visual Communication Design program there? What was that experience like?

I have essentially finished my degree in VCD from Kent State (I just have to put together my professional portfolio and finish my capstone project), and while in my professional work (I run a design and branding consultancy in Stow - in essence we’re competitors!) I do a lot web design, I’m completely self-taught in the mechanics of building the site, and have intentionally avoided web design-related classes as a waste of time. I’m hoping you’ll tell me I made the right choice. :wink:

17

What, in your opinion, is the ‘next big thing’ in web design, or on the internet in general?

18

[QUOTE=Elmo Lincoln]
Why does my site, www.panthanpress.com, center in IE but not firefox? What code do I put in to make it center in firefox?
[/QUOTE]

I’ve been using the following CSS to center sites, and it works for both IE and Firefox:



body {
	margin:0 auto 0 auto;
	background-color: #d1bee0;
	text-align: center; /* Centers container div for IE */
	min-width: 720px;
	
}

#container {
	width: 720px;
	margin: 0 auto;
	text-align: left; /* Undoes body's center-align */
	
}

So, basically, the text-align attribute for the body ends up centering the #container div in IE. Then the text-align attribute for the div itself brings the text back to being left justified.

All of your ‘centered’ content should be held within the ‘container’ div (<div id=“container”></div>).

19

Oh, and my question to the OP would be, what role to you feel Flash plays in the modern internet?

I’ve been looking at jobs at various companies, and Flash is almost always one of the required job skills. Many of the sites for said companies just use Flash for their navigation, which personally I find unwieldy, hard to navigate, and a waste of resources. Many poorly designed or uninteresting-looking sites that clearly spent money paying someone with “flash skills” to develop a menu in flash, when those resources would have been better spent improving the general look and feel, or developing better copy.

20

[QUOTE=Elmo Lincoln]
Why does my site, www.panthanpress.com, center in IE but not firefox? What code do I put in to make it center in firefox?
[/QUOTE]

Here’s how you can change your center() function. It was not really set up for modern browser versions.



<script>
  function center() {
    if (document.all){
      document.all['root'].style.left = Math.max((document.body.clientWidth - 650) / 2, 0);	  
    }
	if (!document.all && document.getElementById) {
  		document.getElementById("root").style.left = Math.max((document.body.clientWidth - 650) / 2, 0);
		document.getElementById("root").style.left = Math.max((self.innerWidth - 650) / 2, 0);
 	}else{
	  document.layer['root'].left = Math.max((window.innerWidth - 650) / 2, 0);
	}
  }
</script>