My wife’s doctor asked me if he could pay me to put together a web page for him. Technically, it’s not a problem. The thing is, I’ve no idea what to charge, since that’s not what I do for a living. Any ideas?
Thanks!
Hmmm… Maybe Gaudere knows the answer to this one?
Depending on where you live, and the degree of sophistication you are going to put into it(active scripts, interactive forms,) it’s probably worth 30$-75$ an hour for a nonprofessional web developer. Don’t accept a simple fee for the whole job, unless you know exactly what kind of time effort you’re getting into.
I agree with wolfman. Charge by the hour, not the project. His $30-75 sounds reasonable.
Technical ability isn’t the only issue. Can you design a good page? Make sure he’s seen some examples of what you’ve already done. You don’t need to hack off your mom’s doctor.
IIRC we wound up paying ~$400 for a seventeen page site for our company. We didn’t really ask the guy to design it; we gave him most of it in jpegs and text files, with CorelDRAW files showing him how we wanted it all stuck together. I believe he was charging us $45/hour.
Wow. You know, I get the feeling I should really pay more attention to market prices. I’ve been charging people $15 dollars an hour to do interactive stuff with PHP and Perl.
$25 dollars an hour for actual java or more complex coding.
$45 bucks an hour just to slap some HTML and pictures together? I’d almost feel guilty charging minimum wage for that! Is that still a skilled occupation?
If you’re a pro, you don’t just ‘slap html’ together, no matter how simple the page is.
Show us some of your work, and we’ll tell you what it’s worth. There are a LOT of ‘web designers’ out there that I wouldn’t pay minimum wage. On the other hand, a company like Siegel and Gale can charge you $5000 for a single HTML page.
It all depends on your talent. As you implied, any kid with an ‘HTML for Dummies’ book can slap together a ‘web site’. But very few can actually do a professional job.
This is not a slam on you - for all I know, you’re a Super-Genius of web design. The point is - how much you are worth depends on what you’re capable of doing.
I agree with Sam (Siegel rules!): it depends on your ability with design and coding. Anyone can pick up basic HTML, but the artistic sensitivity and training, internet savvy and technical ability to make a website look truly professional takes a great deal of time and effort, and so those who spend the time to aquire these things charge correspondingly. It’s worth it, though, IMHO: you can defintitely tell the difference between a site designed by someone who really knows what they’re doing and those who don’t, and a webpage reflects strongly on the company in these webcentric times.
I wouldn’t charge $30-75/hr. unless you genuinely know what you’re doing–not just HTML, but design-wise as well. Maybe $30, probably less (although, if you can get away with it… 
). Remember, everything will take longer than you think it will, and people are often understandably leery about open-ended hourly-paid jobs; try to give the guy a fairly solid estimate for his peace of mind.
Random: 
Kyber: Yes, I think you’re undercharging for your freelance PHP, Perl and Java. Do you live in the Chicago area or are you interested in moving there? My company’s website, PCQuote.com, uses primarily PHP, so if PHP is something you want to pursue I might be able to find a position for you. And by the way, web design IS a goddamn skilled occupation, and it’s NOT just slapping images and text together!
I’d probably charge $10 bucks, though I’d feel guilty charging even that much. I mean, this whole internet fad has had it’s 15 minutes of fame. Just let it go already, people!
Not to pick a fight with Gaudere, ohh great and powerful moderator, but if you know what your doing, don’t even consider going less than 30$ an hour. It seems a lot like scabbing, not only are you screwing yourself out of money, but you are undervaluating the market for other web designers. Unless of course you live in Assboink, Sasketchewan or an area with no internet understanding whatsoever. Make sure if you do do it ‘by the job’ that the employer doesn’t expect free suport until the end of time, that is why ‘by the hour’ is better
I believe I specified “don’t charge 30 to 75 an hour unless you know what you’re doing.” As far as “knowing what you’re doing” goes, I know some people who know more than HTML for Dummies who still shouldn’t charge anywhere near $30 an hour. You can know HTML like the back of your hand and completely lack in any design sense. It is a variant scale, yes, but I was simply saying that a total rube–and unless you know anti-aliasing, tables, graphic optimization and good basic design and typography inside out, backwards and upside down, I probably consider you a rube–should not charge near 75 an hour. If someone undercuts me by charging 20 an hour for better web design, well, that’s the market in action. But I’ve never seen anyone that could.
No employer should expect free support until the end of time, but have a little pity; they’re probably totally clueless about this net thing, and offering to bail them out once in a while if they eff up the site will reassure them greatly. The same goes with giving them a solid estimate before they hire you. Keep in mind that the client is scared they’re going to pay too much and wind up with a website they can’t maintain; good customer relations, good business and good humanity demands that you do a little handholding and make sure they get everything they expected and then some. Maybe this attitude on my part is why I’m not worried about scabbers: I know I’m a good deal and I do a good job.
[Edited by Gaudere on 10-24-2000 at 01:20 AM]
hehe, well it does all depend on the skills of the OP in question. But for example I once(about 4 years ago) knew a 16 year old who was pretty much a master of web design,(accepted to MIT at 16 for reference) he could do everything, with then current technology on a web site, at a really fast speed. But considering that most of his friends had jobs at fat food places for minimum wage, he thought that 9$ an hour was a really good wage, so took a lot of contracts at that wage, and hurt himself, and many other web developers around.
I also today know several web developers making 160$ an hour and they are true experts contracting for fortune 500 companies, so where you are and what you know is the true determinant of value.
What the market will bear, dude. But you mention this guy’s tech skills, and nothing about his design and artistic sense. The backend of websites has its place, and a quite lucrative place for that matter, but I’d not consider it web “design”. The Java and perl and C++ power the funky bits of the website, but unless you have a decent frontend webdesigner few will find or appreciate the backend work. The most important thing for a client who wants a basic website is the frontend; unless you’re doing fancy-schmancy credit card authorization and database interaction, designing the website to reflect the professional capabilities of the company and making its information readily accessible are the most important things. I know far too many people who know the latest technology but who lack the design sense to make that capability even vaguely useful and accessible to the visitor.
$9/hr is too low for a good backend coder. But if he made webpages that looked like they were designed for $9 an hour and few could take advantage of any advanced functionality, well…that’s all he was worth paying for those webpages. Anyone can learn HTML, but part of artistic sense can’t be taught and some “just” requires a butt-load of work. If he had partnered with someone who could design attractive, intuitively-navigable websites he could have charged a ton and been well worth it. Tech skills alone can make a frustrating and confusing website…design skills alone can make an insipid website…design and tech working together can really sing.
Let me try to sum up what I’m saying, and leave it be , because really I’m not trying to start a fight, but contracts are usually upped on the basis of known technology. The 9$ an hour guy was very good at all functionality and aesthetics of web site site design, the only are he was missing was self confidence. I’m just trying to tell the OP not to sell himself short. He said
I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt that he’s not a schlub. If he can design a professional web site then he shouldn’t low-ball his own estimate and talent just because he hasn’t done it ‘commercialy’ before.
My friend, who is a web-designer by trade, desinged my website and maintains it as long as I throw an LA Kings ticket her way every once in awhile (a good one mind you, lower level). Since I basically give her carte blanche with it she likes to do it for practice, experiment to add to her resume, and just as a friend. I would certainly understand, however, if she told me she could not do it for the minimal fee anymore since she is getting alot of side jobs that actually pay as well as her full-time web-design job.
BTW, good Flash programmers can get $75/hr.
My design company (not my main source of income), which consists of myself and my business partner, charged $5040 to design the following site this summer:
A friend of ours is the architecture firm’s graphics/computer guy, and was extremely well organized. He had all of the images scanned, prepared all the text for us, etc. We designed it and built it, without having to worry about scanning, writing copy, etc.
We charge $60 per man-hour. We billed 84 hours, though it actually took closer to 135 hours to complete the site (we agreed upon the final cost before the project started, and it was our friend, after all).
In general, we charge:
$60/hr - design, layout, website construction
$90/hr - original illustrations or complex animation
$30/hr - scanning, typing up text, etc. (we charge less b/c we can sub-contract this stuff out)
If we were to do a similar site again–not for our friend–we would probably estimate $9000.
Im much more experienced. I don’t charge by the hour (could be expensive if I fell asleep ). I charge by the job. I do ask them how much $$ they would like to invest in a web site
& it’s usually enough.
Then write a contract. Too many idiots don’t write a contract.
There was much discussion in the HTML writers newsgroup that talking about how much to charge for this sort of thing on the internet was illegal. I don’t remember the exact reason for it, price fixing or something?
Wow! Anybody have a link to a site done by this company? I simply must see what a $5000 page looks like.
This isn’t really related to the price, but I feel obligated to say it. I wouldn’t do it at all, unless you want to be this doctor’s “web page guy” for the rest of your life. I’ve fixed people’s computers before, even though I’m a software engineer, and now they always come to me for help and I hate it. If it’s not what you do for a living, then maybe you’re better off referring him to somebody else.
I see where you’re coming from “c_goat”. My mother-in-law considers me her personal tech support, but I don’t mind at all. (Then again, she’s not calling me at all hours of the day and night either.) My biggest problem is that I lack confidence in my abilities, so I’d probably sell myself short as a result. 
And I have put together a site of an adult nature, but I’m afraid that if I post a link to it for critique, I may be banned. :eek: