Ask the wildland firefighter

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

Sleeping arrangements depend on who you are and what you’re doing. Engines are primarily an initial attack resource, so for the most part we fought small fires nearby and slept at home. We would either fully control a fire in one shift or get it to a point where it could safely be left overnight. There was one big fire on our district that all our engines responded to in the afternoon and worked on until the following morning. All the people who worked that fire got the following day off, paid, to sleep, but again it was at home.

Large fires generally have command posts with room to sleep. It’s typical to take over a school or campground. I did spend one night in a sleeping bag on the floor of a ski lodge, but that’s pretty swank. Units assigned to large fires will bring tents and two weeks’ worth of overnight supplies. Fire camps are pretty cool, like a small city appearing and disappearing in a month. There’s catering, sometimes laundry, sometimes showers, and vehicles and supplies coming and going at all reasonable hours.

Hotshot crews sometimes hike or fly out to relatively inaccessible parts of the fire, farther from road access than you would want to hike every day, and “spike out” there for days. Food and the crew’s tents and bags are flown out to them. This is a good way to save on walking but I’ve heard that the food that gets delivered is pretty rough.

This was my personal gear, as far as I can remember:
-Man-purse with notebook, Sharpie, pocket guide of useful facts, fireline quals (“red card”), calendar to write down hours.
-keyring with chapstick, lighter, eyedrops, radio frequencies
-pocket knife
-fire shelter
-4-6 quarts of water
-4 “fusees” (identical to road flares afaik)
-fiber tape
-braid of parachute cord
-2-lb jar of peanut butter and a spoon
-long sleeved undershirt
-“space blanket”
-headlamp, radio, lots of extra batteries
-compass
-granola bars, trail mix, nuts, anything dense
-for a while, an MRE, but I got in trouble for eating the one I had, so screw that
-glowsticks and a roll of flagging for marking things
-a bunch of earplugs for working around saws & pumps
-extra boot laces
-camera (that thing got beat to shit, but it got stolen anyway right after the season ended, so okay.)

All told, that was about 40 pounds. Carrying fuel, water or a saw will add anwhere from 15 to 40 extra pounds.

My undershirts smelled like smoke for months after the season ended. I loved that. But I would have felt differently if it had been all my belongings…

22

Which shot crew are you going to be on? I used to work an engine on the Coconino.

23

I took the I-190 and S-100/110 classes about three years ago for a reserve crew. I was only called up once, and was assigned to the camp crew. I moved a lot of boxes and handed out a lot of equipment (mostly broken McClouds (sp?), shovels, etc. and glowsticks… those guys loved the glow sticks!)

Half a dozen of my college friends worked summers on a full time crew for the state forestry, and I actually ran into a few of them on the fire (Davenport, near Datil, NM IIRC). All in all, it was a pretty cool experience, but since it was a reserve crew I never really went out enough to get called onto the fire crew.

I do have a question, though. I’ve heard the fire weather guys make meteorologists on the news look like kindergartners in comparison with the accuracy of their forcasts. Can you expand on this at all?

24

Answered by PM, don’t think I want to out my crew on here.

You know, I never really noticed about the accuracy of the weather. I would imagine the spot forecasts are pretty good, since you give them a current weather for input. People still complain about the quality though.

I did serve as weatherman for a couple Rx burns. That’s a nice job because you have to stop working every half hour and go find someplace shady to spin the weather.

I was lucky to find a full-time fire job last season. Seems pretty tough to break in. Were you not interested in working full-time, or did that just not pan out? I spent about four days running supplies for a fire camp before my red card came through. That was fun work but frustrating because I wanted to be fighting the fire.

25

Thanks for the info. Both my brother, a Captain, and my brother in law, an engineer, have fought forest fires on request. I felt pretty sure they didn’t get the brunt of the work, as Santorugger stated. Doesn’t dimish their efforts, but it helps to know where the majority of the work comes from.

My hat off to you sir.

Unless your home is in the path of a fire I feel confident that most people have no idea the efforts you expend in a typical day of work, attempting to stop what I can only describe as a force of nature.

Peace be with you.

26

Why would you get in trouble for eating an MRE? :dubious:

27

Are you hot?
Oh wait, of course you are! You’re a fireman!

[Homer Simpson]Fiiiiremen…mmmmm…[/Homer Simpson]

28

Near the end of the season we had two good fires on consecutive days. We worked the first one until 11 p.m. and got into quarters at midnight. I was exhausted and out of groceries anyway, so my lunch the next day was pretty sad.
Naturally we went to another fire that afternoon and worked on it all evening. I laid waste to my unfortunate MRE.

Anyway, I got in trouble because they are expensive (shockingly expensive for how gross they are) and because SOP is to pack enough lunch to last through dinner. Sorry, Uncle Sam.

Don’t want to post a picture, but I’m PMing you one. You will have to report impartially on this for the good of the SDMB.

29

And… yes, he is hot.

Do you and your fellow firemen get hit on a lot when you’re out in the community? I bet you do. Almost every woman I know loves firemen. I myself have often thought of pushing a coworker down the stairs so that firemen will come in their little blue shirts… j/k.

Do you ever get sick of being ogled, drooled on, and invited in?

30

Heya, I’m in the Air Force, having volunteered to put my life on the line (in an abstract way) to protect my family and loved ones and my country. I can safely say that probably nothing I do in my military career will be as dangerous as what you people do for a living, barring the outside chance of me getting assigned to be a firefighter in the Air Force. Would it be possible for me to buy you a beer or three at some point?

31

Wait, you got in trouble for eating an MRE because it was expensive? Did they issue it to you or something?

32

No questions, just an observation. I’ve seen you guys in action and you are truly heroic. There is nothing more feared out here in the dry prairie than wildfire, and we had one two summers ago that darkened the skies for two days. A whole passel of our local rural firefighters had been to Wildfire College and put their skills and courage to work. Being an old newshound, I couldn’t stay away from the story of the summer, so I lurked on the sidelines, snapping photos and grabbing interviews that were later incorporated into news stories on the local radio stations and in the hometown newspaper. Watching guys like you work the front lines left me slack-jawed with awe and admiration.

Thank you for serving.

33

Not at all. In the Northwest I worked in a tiny town where everyone had known each other for years. The only out-of-towners were myself and a few other firefighters. I think that situation is a real disincentive to ogle and drool.

On the other hand I’ve never met a female firefighter who was anything other than foxy. That’s one of those benefits they don’t tell you about.

Yeah, I got issued one with my line gear. Apparently it’s for situations like the all-nighter I mentioned above. Trouble is too strong of a word, but my boss was annoyed for sure. But I learned in any case that a big jar of peanut butter is reclosable and tastes better.

Where are you in central CA? I’m going to spend part of the early spring in the Bay area. I think it’s me that owes you a beer for your service, but we can negotiate. Send a PM.

added on preview: Sunrazor, do you have any of those photos available to share? Grass fires are dangerous. “Deceptively light fuels” are one of the common denominators of tragedy fires.

And also, thanks for all the kind words. The job is its own reward, but it’s great to know we are appreciated.

34

Even when we’re all sooty and sweaty and smelly? :smiley:

35

Especially then

36

Alas, no, they have become property of the local newspaper. I can tell you, however, that at one point I was abreast of the advancing line of fire (I was safely on I-76, about a quarter-mile away from the flames) and parallel to the advance. I clocked the flames at 30 miles per hour with no wind. The fire was moving uphill, which speeds things up, as I understand it. A bulldozer and road grader were working feverishly to cut a fire line about five miles ahead of the line. As you know, this was not “a fire” but a series of fires moving in all directions. What was so incredible to me was the coordination and the speed with which the firefighters moved into position to contain the monster. The on-site commander tried to explain to me afterward how the thing was coordinated – I’ve seen NFL offenses that were less complicated! The whole thing was just incredible – that there are beer-drinkin’, line-dancin’ ordinary Joes I went to high school with, who can go out and defeat one of the most frightening aspects of nature I’ve ever seen, is just awesome. Seriously, there ought to be a movie about you guys.

37

Maybe we’ll buy each other beers or something. :smiley:

PM will be sent in a jiffy

38

Nice thread, HellsBreezeway.

I’ve been involved with wildland fire since my first one in Yellowstone National Park in 1981. Ground pounder, hotshot, helitack. I’ve been on a Type 1 IC team for the past six years. There are only 17 in the entire country, now being supported by NIMO teams coming on board. Also been on an area command team.

If I may …

You are comparing fish and bicycles here. The TV weather folks are often not what they claim. And their weather resources are limited. On the other hand, fire weather folks are highly skilled with weather tools providing data round the clock from all over the place. It’s not uncommon to have at least two National Weather meteorologists on a big fire, working hand in hand with fire weather experts. They can do pinpoint forecasts down to within minutes and 100 meters, and less. But they have weather data on the ground, in the air and via satellite that TV weather folks never gain access. It’s not just what’s in the sky, but also the ground. Fuel moisture levels, ground moisture levels and local historical weather records all go into a shift’s fire weather forecast.

Many fire camps are locked down. No civilians allowed in and firefighters are not allowed out. Most of it has to do with safety. Many incident teams also have a zero tolerance policy on harassment and drugs. Even one incident can cause that firefighter, even the entire 20-person fire crew to be pulled from a fire and sent home. We had an incident one one fire where two brand new (to the fire) 20-person crews were helicoptered in to a remote location on a fire (spike camp) in the morning. Within about three hours after arriving on scene a few words were “exchanged” between crews. Within the hour we had dispatched sheriff’s helicopter and drug dog to the spike camp and by early afternoon both crews had been helicoptered off the fire and sent home, for the rest of the fire season. Neither had ever left the spike camp.

It was a triple-witching issue. A female fire fighter was harassed by another fire crew member from the other team. One was Hispanic and one was not. And someone had smelled marijuana in the mix. The spike camp leader made the decision she wanted no part of it and invoked zero tolerance. The crew leaders were given a choice, your fire season ends now or people were going to jail. Sending both crews home immediately, and for the rest of the season meant they had a year to learn from their stupidity (and the chance to remain on a fire crew). It also meant peer pressure would deal with those ultimately responsible for the incident.

The only real opportunity firefighters may have contact with the local community is when they are arriving or departing a fire. That timeframe is very short (minutes to an hour or so). During the heat of fire season, probably not at all. On the other hand, I’ve attended quite a few community meetings where Incident Commanders explain what’s happening on a current fire (more often fires). The public is always grateful to hear firsthand what is happening and ask lots of questions. Some community meetings can get quite heated (pun intended) because when its your house that may burn, you really want specific information right now. The biggest pain in the ass at these meetings are the media. They all too often spin current fire information for their own ends (think ratings). At the same time fire officials need the media to get the word out.

Aw Grasshopper, don’t let this get out or your reputation as a FF Weenie will be secured. :slight_smile:

In my heavy fire fight days, we had C-Rats and K-Rats from WWII and Korea to eat on the fire line. That stuff was already 40 years old! MREs today are five-star fine dining. You got it easy today.

Red Skies of Montana, circa 1952.

There was a recent PBS(?) program that followed an Oregon fire crew. It turned out to be an embarrassment because of the considerable number of safety violations caught on camera. Ego apparently took over with the crew.

A real Hollywood movie might be nice, but Hollywood has a hard time (IMHO) depicting this type of reality honestly.

39

Here’s the part that really gets me, MREs just don’t seem to be all that expensive to me, but then, I can get them from the Commissary for $8 each, so it might just be that they’re selling us old ones for cheap or something.

But yeah, I’ve read in various places that MREs are basically designed for the Army’s needs, and are inferior or more expensive than rations that a civvie might want to pack for a hike. I think the emphasis is on shelf life, portability, and ease of deployment as it wore (rip it open and eat. You can heat it up if you’ve got a lot of time to kill, and it comes with a bottle of tobasco to deal with the sometimes quite unpleasant flavor). Supposedly it is also designed to stop you up, so to speak, so soldiers won’t have to go to the bathroom as often.

But yeah, peanut butter is definitely easier, cheaper, and tastier. Have you ever tried GORP? Take a bag, fill it with peanuts, raisins, and any other small snacky things you like such as M&Ms or whatever. Fast and easy to make, and tasty and easy to snack on on the move. That and a sack of beef jerky should be easy enough to carry on you to keep you going.

But yeah, I say “But yeah” a whole lot.

40

Thanks for the info, Duckster. What’s your role on the ICT? I don’t really know anything about how overhead works on a big incident. What fires did you work last season?

Very good to know we’re in such good hands with NWS meteorologists.

Working on engines there was a lot of community contact–things like the Fourth of July parade, and also things like stopping at the gas station for breakfast burritos. Sometimes questions about recent fires/upcoming Rx burns/etc. Obviously not on an official basis, but I was always a little wary of saying something wrong and causing trouble for the FS. We never had to & wouldn’t have had to deal with community contact during a major incident, obviously.

It looks like the PBS documentary was about the Arrowhead Hotshots. I would like to find that on DVD… Look for Firestorm with Howie Long, the ex-NFL star, if you’re interested in a relentlessly stupid portrayal of every aspect of firefighting.

Rumor at my district was that the gum in MREs is a laxative, do you know anything about that? Probably a weird urban legend, but I stayed away from it.

Yeah, trail mix is key, I must have gone through about fifteen pounds of nuts last season. I found chocolate chips beat M&Ms. The sugar coating on M&Ms started to bother me after a while. I became a master of the art. The most important things are enough raisins and not too much chocolate.

But yeah.