I feel the same way. I’m asexual, not schizoid, but (to borrow a term from Temple Grandin) I feel like an anthropologist from Mars watching other people’s relationships. More to the point, what I feel like is one of those sci-fi parables about the Power of Love/Friendship/Fuzzy Bunnies, where the logical aliens cannot comprehend emotion. They only see that it leads people to do stupid things, and they conclude that they’re much better off not having them, and the audience is supposed to chuckle sadly at the ignorance of the e.t.'s. I hear about romance and I read about romance, and I see people falling in love and lust, and all I can think is, “How strange. I’m lucky to have avoided that headache.”
Er, what I meant to say is… well, it’s late at night ad studies have shown that sleep-deprivation is akin to drunkness, and I’m not really sure what I’m saying. See you tomorrow.
Thanks for the compliments. I don’t know if I have good insight, but I do try to improve myself. Not for the sake of others, but so that my life can be as stress-free as possible. Also, the reoccuring depression and my schizoidism do very bad things when they come together. Most times I’m completely functional, but sometimes I get really close to the edge of self-destruction. In that way, I can almost sympathize with the craziness of borderline PD.
When I first got the diagnosis, the first thing I did was to search out an online community of schizoids. But after about a month of lurking and posting on a couple of message boards, I decided to stop. I found such places full of people writing in purple prose about how much they hated their parents (although having no interest in moving out and getting their own places), teenagers obsessed with the idea that they could have it and trying to classify their every thought and action as being “schizoid traits” (perhaps creating a self-fulfilling prophesy in the process), and people with mild-to-slightly moderate cases like mine who think it’s not a real disorder–seemingly ignoring the fact that schizoidism has high co-mobidity with depression, self-destructive behavior, schizotypical PD, and a whole host of other bad things. There is also an air of superiority amongst some schizoids, who think they are smarter and better than “normals”. Narcissism, really. But then they talk about their lives and you just shake your head. Never had a real job, still living with parents, absorbed in anime (I swear, every schizoid except for me seems to be into anime), and always complaining about how empty, hopeless, and boring life is. They refuse therapy, choosing instead to take refuge in their own little bubbles. They live and breath their PD. Everything that happens to them gets filtered through that; it’s as if they use it as a crutch, a sword, and a shield.
Then there are the wannabes. These are people who talk about how much their schizoidism sucks, but then in the next breath mention that they’ve never been diagnosed with anything because they don’t have money to see a doctor, how they regularly hang out with friends, and even have a spouse or SO! I’m always like, “WTH?” Yeah, you might have a schizoid style. Lots of introverts do. But how in the hell can you call yourself a schizoid (as in, someone with a PD) when you have friends, talk about how horny you are, and have a SO? Not having those seem to be the meat and potatos of the disorder, IMHO. But when you mention this, these people will get defensive and say, “You don’t have to meet ALL the symptoms!” Well, this is very much true. I meet some of the criteria more than the others, and it would piss me off when people would question my diagnosis just because I would mention I cried at the end of Toy Story (or something trivial like that). But I would think there are some criteria that you must meet for your diagnosis not to be absolutely ridiculous. It’s like someone claiming to have Asperger’s and yet they don’t have social problems or sensory issues. What’s left except symptoms a lot of quirky people have?
The only thing I can think of is that there are “ancillary” symptoms along with the ones listed in the DSM. A lot of people will focus on those moreso on the others because they are much more common. Like depersonalization, which is common with anxiety disorders. Or having a rich fantasy life. But if you have an active right-brain, chances are you will have a rich fantasy life. Anyone who has dreams of being a novelist has a deep fantasy life, but that doesn’t make them schioid. Couple having a fantasy life with a very introverted personality, and I can see how someone could think, “Hey, I must be schizoid!” Strangely, unlike the other PDs, there are lot of people who seem to want to be schizoid, like it’s just another way of being and not really a disorder. I can understand that point-of-view, but I do think it’s only a minority of people with schizoid PD who would say they’ve never suffered from it. If a person hasn’t suffered from it, then perhaps they don’t have schizoid PD but rather a schizoid character style.
Hee. A forum of Schizoid PDs! That’s a funny concept right there.
A diagnosis is . . . just a diagnosis. Shorthand that points us to what we can expect if we don’t work to improve our situation. Wear it as a daily label or just be the best you you can be?
See, this is why I like the Straight Dope. You get fascinating testimonies about other peoples’ lives, and you get to ask them intrusive questions! Were you the nosiest person on the planet, you couldn’t get this sort of stuff in real life. So, thanks, Monstro – this is really interesting.
So let me ask – do you think the drugs help? Seems to me like a strange thing to treat with drugs, in the sense that I feel like you’ve come to terms with the disorder.
Thanks for appreciating this thread. I was unsure whether I should start it or not, because people with PDs are so awfully stigmitized. But most people don’t even know about schizoid PD and may not be aware that someone they know has it. They may think that a certain person is an aloof snob, when really that person could be insane in the membrane.
Just kidding.
About medication. I take two drugs for my movement disorder and to try to damp down the repetitive thoughts I have. I take a benzodiazepine and just started taking a new drug called Intuniv (which is an ADHD med). I take another for my depressive symptoms (Wellbutrin), which is often prescribed for schizoid PD as well because it mitigates some of the negative symptoms associated with it (like lack of motivation and desire).
Are they working? Yes, but not completely. I still have jerks and tics and parkinsonism and akathesia, especially at night. Just not as bad as I used to. I still have repetitive thoughts, but they aren’t as loud (and I’m not sure if me staying busy with activities has been more effective than the drug experimentation). I still have depressive symptoms, but they are sporadic (which is frustrating because just when I think I’m “cured”, the bad thoughts return). I do think the Wellbutrin has allowed me to feel genuine desire for things in life, which is reduced in most schizoids. When I find myself wanting to do something, I do it immediately. Some could view this as being impulsive, but it’s more like, “OK, I just felt really good thinking about this idea/object/place. So before I lose this feeling, I need to check it out now.” So sometimes if I get a burst of inspiration for an art project, I’ll take off early from work and get right on it. If I have a craving for a certain food, I’ll get it ASAP. If I want to go to Yosemite and see a giant sequoia, I’ll fly out there and have a good time. Before I was on the drug, I would do things not because they brought pleasure, but because I just didn’t know what else to do and hey, why not? Everything was “meh”. Not bad, but nothing to write home about either. My brain wasn’t even trying to come up with things to look forward to. My mother would ask me what was going on in my life and I’d always say the same thing. “Nothing.”
I’m still like this, but in a different way. A person my age usually has some kind of goal they’re striving for, whether it be buying a house, a new car, finding someone to settle down with, rising up the job ladder, etc. I usually don’t think farther than the day. I don’t set goals and have no long-term wants. It’s almost like the future doesn’t exist as a possibility to me…instead it’s all a black wall. But I’m slowly changing in this area, with baby steps. Like, I’ve started up a sidewalk vending business on the weekends. I’ve been having fun thinking of the different things I can make to sell each week, as well as the different ways I can market them. Because I have a 9-to-5 and my craftwork is something that would consume my time anyway, I have no pressure to do well or make a profit. It’s a perfect way of observing people, manipulating them (:)), buffeting my self-confidence, and developing an ego. I’ll let you know how it works out.
I think it’s because a lot fo people know about the good and not the bad. For example, if you have a social anxiety disorder, then you’d probably think it great if you no longer had any desire to be social. Anxiety solved. But then you have the anxiety problems you already mentioned, so it’s not as good as it seems.
Anyways, since my previous question was apparently not that good, I’ll try another. One of the unusual things about romantic relationships is that people are often attracted to those they can’t have. Have you encountered someone who apparently had a crush on you? Would you notice if they did?
I’m sorry that I missed your earlier question. Was not my intention.
I have had a number of people who had crushes on me. The last major one ended up horribly, because I think the guy was mentally unstable himself. But his feelings were not on my radar, no. Everyone who worked with us knew, but not me. I think that’s why it hurt him so much, and why I felt so guilty.
The whole thing has now made me hypersensitive to romantic overtures. There’s a coworker who goes traveling a lot, and he’ll bring me (and me alone) little trinkets. I always thank him but leave it at that. I think he may still have pleasant feelings for me, but senses that I’m not going to grab his bait any time soon. Probably thinks I’m gay. Oh well.
Then there’s another colleague who I started a thread about recently. Strangely, I haven’t heard from him since so perhaps that was all overblown. But like I said, I’m primed now to be on the look-out for potential heart-breaking. Not to the point where I avoid being friendly with people, but if someone is being extra nice to me, I’ll ask another person if they think it could be something deeper.
I know I’m responding to you ass-backwards. It’s early in the morning. Forgive me.
I think you’re right. I think it’s like this with a number of mental disorders, like Asperger’s and schizophrenia. Peope are attracted to the “beautiful mind” aspect of such conditions. And the truth is that there are benefits to being asocial and self-absorbed. For instance, I have never really been affected by peer pressure or trends, and unless a societal convention makes sense to me (like not murdering everybody), then I don’t care about following it. A coworker who is on the constant hunt for a “man” once told me that people “should” find someone to love and who loves them and grow old together. I bluntly said “I don’t believe in shoulds.” All I have to do in life is stay black and die (old-folks saying, apologies). All the other stuff that people come up with to do is just gravy. And I feel empowered by this belief.
Then there’s the often intense creativity associated with schizophrenic spectrum disorders. There has never been a time in my life when I did not have some project going on. I think being so creative and capable of hyperfocusing has been protective and given my otherwise aimless life some purpose.
But honestly, I think some people just want to be special, or perhaps have an excuse for why their lives suck. I think that’s another reason why I stopped posting on those boards. People would actually get disappointed if they didn’t fit all the criteria. Like you get a prize in the mail if you do.
Meh. My other question depended more on other people remembering who I was talking about. And your description of your disorder makes me think that he may have not had the same disorder. He seemed to be capable of having a girlfriend; even if he didn’t understand the social customs involved, he seemed to at least enjoy the company/sex.
BTW, I’m impressed with your apology in your second response. That’s a rhetorical apology–a concept many neurotypical don’t seem to get.
I am a virgin and I am 33 years old. I’m not proud of it and I’ve only told literally a couple of people ever IRL. But not having the physical or emotional drive, it really isn’t an issue for me.
I’m not completely insensitive to the stigma associated with being an adult virgin, though. I cannot watch five minutes of “40-Year-Old Virgin” because it just makes me feel bad. Or when people tell a high-strung person that they just “need to get laid”, that also stings. But most times, I really don’t care. It’s kind of like if the idea of eating meat disgusts you, you’re not really going to care that you can’t eat a hamburger. Because you’re used to eating other things and like them just fine.
Actually I was on Paxil and then Celexa for years and it removed my libido almost entirely. I went for several years without sex and it got to the point where I couldn’t understand why people would DO that–it just sounded so unappealing. So I can understand how you feel though thankfully I no longer feel that way myself.
I’m now wondering whether psychologists would class “having wanted one man, and only one, but that one as far as it’s possible to want someone” in your whole life as a disorder or merely atypical (my maternal grandmother, and no, she’s not interested in women).
Threads like this are one of my main reasons to be in the Dope, it’s one of the two places I know where someone can say “I have [insert condition here]” and people’s responses are more along the lines of curiosity than either politeness or rejection (the other one is Mensa meetings).
This is interesting. I think a lot of people assume that a person without social/ romantic desires and dampened affect have no passion and are lacking in creativity. The stereotype of an artist is intensely emotional, perhaps bipolar experiencing mania.
What do you create? Has this changed significantly over time?
How is this different from an anxiety disorder? Anxiety can create all those symptoms as well. After a period of not socializing because you’re too scared, you can become so used to solitary life that you would prefer it over socializing. How can psychologists tell whether you don’t like relationships because you are so used to avoiding them or because you simply don’t like them?
When I was a kid, was very much into drawing. I never drew real things or realistic things…just bizarre looking faces. Some were disgusting (I went through a phase where every face had to have a shower of vomit spewing out of the mouth). Some showed intense facial expressions, like extreme anger or happiness. And others were just weird. I was also fond of drawing mind-numbing mazes. I am a little ahead of the curve as far as my drawing abilities go, but I’m not gifted or anything. But as a kid, it was pretty much all I did, even into high school. If I had continued with that level of intensity into adulthood and gone to art school, I probably would have turned out to be a pretty good cartoonist.
I don’t know why I focused so much on faces and emotional expressions. I maintained a stone face as a kid like I do now, so perhaps I was trying to tap into the energy I couldn’t express? Teachers would bring their concerns about my lack of smiling to my mother during parent-teacher conferences, and her response was always the same. “She just has a solemn face”. It’s true and I don’t think anyone would have described me as a joyless child, but I think if my mother had been more observant about my life in general, she would have taken the blunt affect, along with other things, as a warning sign. Her solution was just to nag me about smiling more. I’m sure the teachers’ comments were embarrassing for her.
As an adult, I’ve been pretty much engrossed in painting glassware. I’ll go to thrift stores and buy old vases, clean them up, and then do faux-stained glass painting on them. Over the past two years, I’ve gotten into embellishing terra cotta pots and tin cans with clay and paint and transforming them into cool flower pots. Some samples can be seen here. I’m a plant-lover, so it makes sense that my art relates to plants. I currently have over a hundred houseplants (my back bedroom is essentially full of grow lights and shelves). I get totally consumed by the plants, flower pots, and the glassware. They’re pretty much all I focus on outside of work.
I used to give my flower pots away. I walk to work every morning and my eyes latch on to certain houses for no particular reason. If I liked a house, I would secretly leave a flower pot with a plant on the porch. This summer, I think I left about 45 pots on 45 different porches and stoops. Because I’m neurotic, I would actually check on them every day and make sure the people were taking care of them (I would often be late for work :)). Sometimes the pots would disappear shortly after I would leave them, and I would have visions of someone smashing them and throwing away the plants. So I would hate when the pots would disappear and love it when they stayed visible and I could see the plants thriving. But after a long time of trying to persuade me, my therapist finally convinced me to stop giving them away and actually sell them. That way I wouldn’t have to “worry” about the plants. The logic being that whomever bought them would actually “love” them just as much as I do.
I’m sure a psychoanalyst would have great fun shrinking my brain. But alas, I go to a behavioral therapist.
I don’t really know, not being a psychologist. But I’m sure a person gives away certain clues if they have social phobia versus a schizoid character. If they are emotionally engaged, but very shy…if they express a desire to be with someone or have friends…if they have strong relationships with a close but small circle of people…if they frequently talk about worries and fears, irrational or otherwise…then they probably have social anxiety, perhaps an avoidant PD. If they present as cold or detached…if they constantly say “I don’t know” when you ask them questions about how they feel or what they want…if they present as slightly eccentric…if they never express desires, particularly social desires…and if they don’t appear to have anxiety issues and actually seem to live a risky, dangerously independent life, then they probably are schizoid, not avoidant.
I’m not saying it’s easy to separate the two and it is possible to be “schizoid-avoidant” (although I think it’s a strong probability such a person is schizotypal or at least heading that way). But I don’t think it’s impossible to figure it out if you get to know a patient long enough. And the scores on the MMPI-II can differentiate the two as well.
Why can’t I have a neighbor like you?? I wandered over to your Flickr page–I would love one of those flower pots (or glass vases) to magically appear on my porch! What a lovely gift to your neighborhood!
